whats wrong with wow?

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Abriael, what your saying is just not corrent, your making grand statements that you have no first hand experience in, anyone who played high end content in WoW knows your full of it. If you go through something after it is on farm is not the same as going through it on hard mode during release. Your "claimed" experiences is a false representation of reality. It is the equivalent of saying you ran CoP for the first time without animas on release and oneshot every fight in the mission chain in the first day it was out. It is just not correct.

Outside of CoP WoW is more challenging.

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Unfortunately for you, something isn't "false" just because you claim it so. Everything is relatively challenging when first experienced (both because you don't really know what to do, and because you actually want to experience it), that's the obvious between the obvious.
The person I was responding to quite obviously wasn't talking about "first time" encounters (I really would like to see him/her playing even just something as easy as Dynamis or any similar encounter in any other MMORPG for the first time without paying attention, he/she would be kicked out of the linkshell/guild in a split second).

WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG, and every MMORPG has content that's relatively challenging the first couple times you try it, and then turns to farm mode, because AI encounters are repeatitive by nature. WoW is no different, and the support of crutches like aggro meters and similar (because you need the game to tell you when your aggro is weak, lol) make it even easier than many others.

i experienced FFXI for 6 years and WoW for 2 years.

i can tell with a clear head WoW is harder than FFXI.
Yes CoP is hard but its not an instances or events, its 1time fight thing, you cant consider that as a content.

dont even starts with AV and PW, nobody was able to kill that til they use wall of justice on AV.. or until SE toned it down and people KC it down (there is no real strat here), then SE buffed it again and it become unkilledable again.

PW was plain stupid, SE had to toned it down because media attacked them for being unhealthy for gamers because of the 18hours straight fight.

this isnt 'hard' its cruel.


Vrtra is probably one of the most challenging for me before KC zerg become popular.

*all of this was during 75cap, i quit before they raised cap*

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yes CoP is hard but its not an instances or events, its 1time fight thing, you cant consider that as a content.

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So one-time content isn't content now? Now, that's a funny statement mate. You seem to think that only encounters you can farm are "content". :D

So I guess most of the quests that wow (and other MMOs) features aren't "content" as well? Since you can do them only once?

On the other hand Guildleves are "content" because you can do them over and over?

Now, ain't this awesome? SE gave us a game so full of "content"!

Sure, if you say it's a content.. i doubt half of people would do CoP if it didnt have Sea Access as reward.. the rewards that sea offers is what drives people to go through CoP.

and are you going to ignore whatever i wrote ?

also, the only content that is good and very dynamic was Salvage.
but, allas isnt instances very WoW-like? isnt abyssea pretty much spoonfeeding? i never did abyssea, but i have heard words on how you can go 75-90 in like 10hours? godamn that is on the same level on WoW-level-pace if not faster lol.

Majority loves spoodfeeding and easy ride, that is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Sure, if you say it's a content.. i doubt half of people would do CoP if it didnt have Sea Access as reward.. the rewards that sea offers is what drives people to go through CoP.

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Actually COP has a great story, and that's an awesome reward in itself. I couldn't care less of the rewards. Quite a lot of people loved FFXI for it's stories.

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but, allas isnt instances very WoW-like?

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Ahem, you might want to be made aware of the fact that Blizzard didn't invent instances. Actually FFXI used instances before WoW was even released. DAOC introduced instances pretty much at the same time.

who cares about who invented what and when. we only care about if it is fun.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Unfortunately for you, something isn't "false" just because you claim it so. Everything is relatively challenging when first experienced (both because you don't really know what to do, and because you actually want to experience it), that's the obvious between the obvious.
The person I was responding to quite obviously wasn't talking about "first time" encounters (I really would like to see him/her playing even just something as easy as Dynamis or any similar encounter in any other MMORPG for the first time without paying attention, he/she would be kicked out of the linkshell/guild in a split second).

WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG, and every MMORPG has content that's relatively challenging the first couple times you try it, and then turns to farm mode, because AI encounters are repeatitive by nature. WoW is no different, and the support of crutches like aggro meters and similar (because you need the game to tell you when your aggro is weak, lol) make it even easier than many others.

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Abriael I am going to try to help you with something here. When you say "WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG" What example do you have? try quantifying or even qualifying your answer for a change.

Your comment on Aggro mods, is actually a decient one but it is midgiving. Aggro mods haven't been used years by top tier guilds and I personally never had one or needed one. Yet it is a crutch that helps less hardcore players see more content. This was commonly used becuase people which had previously completed the content and had the gear from it where redoing the content with people were undergeared and could pull aggro based on gear seperation, this happened a lot in BC and that is when these mods starting comming out.

I dont' necessarly think that aggro mods were a bad thing in the context there were initially created and I don't think they make the game easier for the people try to push the game. Players who were more hardcore could go and do content and experience the full depth of the encounters. People who got there latter coudl get help from people who did it earlier, but the gear differential was too great and aggro became hard to balance if you tank was fresh to content trying to hold aggro vs higher geared and mabey even skilled players.

Congradulations you actually used an actual verifyable fact see how this actually starts a conversation?

Now with this your options are

1 Either post an intelligabe retort with examples,
2 now aggrue that your comments about ease were meant for low-mid range level (old) content, which I wont' argue becuase that is the nature of a game that progresses.
3 Flame randomly
4 refuse to reply

I am hoping for either of the first two, but I will leave you room to go at this as you see appropiate.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Actually COP has a great story, and that's an awesome reward in itself. I couldn't care less of the rewards. Quite a lot of people loved FFXI for it's stories.

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i would read a book if i want great story, there are alot of games out there with a very great storylines, but no one really reads them because most just dont care about the story and spam enters, for myself, i play games to enjoy the gameplay and nice story is just a plus.

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hem, you might want to be made aware of the fact that Blizzard didn't invent instances. Actually FFXI used instances before WoW was even released. DAOC introduced instances pretty much at the same time.

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exactly!! yays!! omg, now please educate half of the user here.. because aggro icons, instances, and jumping doesnt make you WoW-clone..

edit: also "!" mark for quests!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

exactly!! yays!! omg, now please educate half of the user here.. because aggro icons, instances, and jumping doesnt make you WoW-clone..

edit: also "!" mark for quests!

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Amen brother, WoW clone is a pretty rediculous argument. Thinking like that, how would ANY new games ever come out, since there has already been one that was an FPS, RPG, platform, ect??!?

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Abriael I am going to try to help you with something here. When you say "WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG" What example do you have? try quantifying or even qualifying your answer for a change.

Your comment on Aggro mods, is actually a decient one but it is midgiving. Aggro mods haven't been used years by top tier guilds and I personally never had one or needed one. Yet it is a crutch that helps less hardcore players see more content. This was commonly used becuase people which had previously completed the content and had the gear from it where redoing the content with people were undergeared and could pull aggro based on gear seperation, this happened a lot in BC and that is when these mods starting comming out.

I dont' necessarly think that aggro mods were a bad thing in the context there were initially created and I don't think they make the game easier for the people try to push the game. Players who were more hardcore could go and do content and experience the full depth of the encounters. People who got there latter coudl get help from people who did it earlier, but the gear differential was too great and aggro became hard to balance if you tank was fresh to content trying to hold aggro vs higher geared and mabey even skilled players.

Congradulations you actually used an actual verifyable fact see how this actually starts a conversation?

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Actually I don't see where your comments about aggro mods not being used comes from, considering that blizzard had to actually legitimate them by designing encounters specifically around their use (bad choice, they should have just banned them).

Maybe your personal guild doesn't use them (or maybe people just say that they don't), but that doesn't mean that they aren't widely used.

If the gear separation is too great, you mitigate it, instead of legitimizing tools that contribute turning one of the few relatively challenging aspects of the game (tanking) into a matter of just following the instructions on screen.
But of course Blizzard didn't mitigate the gear separation, know why? Because it makes them money, keeping people hooked on the game.

And that's the big problem with the challenge in every MMORPG. WoW included.
MMORPGs are based on people spending money on them on a continuated base. Many, faced with content that they cannot overcome easily, simply quit and stop paying.

This was the main reason that killed warhammer online. The game was massively based on faction-related PvP, and people that found that their faction couldn't overcome the opposition simply quit. Then the opposite faction found themselves without people to play against, and quit out of boredom. Then the first faction started dominating because more people quit on the second because of boredom, triggering more ragequits, in an endless loop of ragequitting.

This is why it's in any MMORPG company's best interest to keep content relatively unchallenging. Between MMORPG players, people that want an actual challenge are much less than those that just want to "be the hero". WoW is no exception, and if you think that it's any more challenging than the average of other MMORPGs, you kid yourself.
Some encounters in WoW have a relatively decent level of challenge, like the twin emperors for instance, but more or less every MMORPG has it's ration of those, some high tier raids in Age of Conan for instance (at least before funcom dumbed down the combo mechanics), Pretty much every COP encounter in FFXI, most Tomb Kings bosses in Warhammer online (Mythic really went on the cruel side with those, erroneously thinking that people WANTED a challenge, just triggering more ragequits instead). There are a few in every MMORPG out there. And mind you, I say more challenging than the average, but they're still fairly unchallenging compared to other genres.

By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I enjoy relaxed gameplay quite often and you won't ever be able to quote me saying that WoW's problem is that it's easy (while I believe it is, that's not the problem, besides the fact that it's extreme easyness during the leveling up process tends to attract a crowd I don't like to play with), and just go to other games (racing simulators, flight simulators, strategy games and so forth) when I want challenging content.

PS:My facts are always verifiable. Some just don't like to hear them, and prefer to deny.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

i would read a book if i want great story, there are alot of games out there with a very great storylines, but no one really reads them because most just dont care about the story and spam enters, for myself, i play games to enjoy the gameplay and nice story is just a plus.

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The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.