So about Summoner...

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

I personally think SMN is the most powerful job in the game right now...for several reasons:

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I agree with several points, but I find it funny dragoon say that. With disembowel dragoon can reach even 7.5k raid dps. Drg is only reason mch is even viable. Imo dragoon should be first class that get nerfed and mch should be buffed. Also once you mention mch hypercharge is almost equally valuable than summoner offensive utility. Probably even slightly better if you check top speed kills. And ya RDM should get small potency buff.

Blm is in a good spot, but fear for UWU, with so much movement.., going Smn instead of Blm there..

even if AM helps Blm a lot, sometimes you need other players to move fast too or AM can become useless

Smn dps will be fine early on, Blm will need more time to get their dps up in UWU

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I agree with several points, but I find it funny dragoon say that. With disembowel dragoon can reach even 7.5k raid dps. Drg is only reason mch is even viable. Imo dragoon should be first class that get nerfed and mch should be buffed. Also once you mention mch hypercharge is almost equally valuable than summoner offensive utility. Probably even slightly better if you check top speed kills. And ya RDM should get small potency buff.

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I don't really have a main job. I was DRG for deltascape, WHM for sigmascape and I'm now playing SMN during my sigmascape weeklies. It's just bothersome to always change my main here. I agree that disembowel is a very problematic skill. I'd personally remove the piercing res down debuff from the game and reallocate the lost damage among DRG, BRD and MCH in a "fair" way...which in my opinion means something like 70% to DRG and 30% to BRD/MCH, but that's for the devs to decide.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...jGBXkRwyncbC/8

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You absolutely cannot count this parse—it is padded to hell and back again, which is going to skew the parse and skew interpretations. Just looking at the SMN’s 9k damage versus everyone else sitting at 4.6k or lower should tell you that this is possibly one of the worst examples you could ever pick for proving a point.

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https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...hZPCQRTwgar/23

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Literally the same thing for this one.

Padded Phantom Train parses involve blatant Balance-feeding and padding on the adds in which other party members barely even touch them to allow the person being padded all the damage on them. Try using non-padded parses to illustrate your point better, because these are heavily skewed and therefore cannot be used as fair examples of anything more than overly padded damage output.



On topic: I think that BLM is in a better spot than it has been, but it is still out-shone by SMN. And it’s pathetic that the developers haven’t done anything for RDM.

Jobs should not be balanced around the lowest common denominator, nor should they be left as-is in high-end content just because they fill some particular niche elsewhere—re: PotD & RDM.
Ironically, there’s a lot of salt because RDM is literally the only job capable as of right now of getting the solo Floor 200 clear. That’s not particularly fair to the other 14 jobs. Nor is it fair to RDM that they deal less damage than a BRD and offer nowhere near as much utility—raise utility dies the minute you start successfully clearing a fight with zero deaths.

Double Ast balance feeding. If only XD

even if blm is in a better spot, when UWU PFs look for caster spots or statics, is still usally smn/rdm... (rdm still desirable..., blm is better off, but not all content;.. but yeah smn is still best off, but there will always be a more desirable class, hard to balance 100%)

I don't really understand this "idea" that Summoner is just "crazy OP" compared to other classes, and this raid tier has been the first in a very long time where multiple team comps can be viable. Furthermore, I'm continuously lost how people are blindly just mentioning "numbers" and attempting to make comparisons without understanding the true context behind those numbers, or lack a complete understanding of the class to make sense of them.

"Look at how strong Radiant Shield is!" >Pulls a log from o6s

Do you understand WHY Radiant Shield is strong in that fight specifically? Or understand that while it can be extremely strong in one fight, it can be nearly useless in another? (Ultima phase hello??)

Nonetheless, people need to stop worrying about "speedkill" meta when 99.9% of the playerbase doesn't take part in it. Unless you're actually at the top 1% where optimizing this heavily matters, then "meta" is honestly irrelevant excluding some considerations for progression.

And If you really want to compare "balance" between the casters right now, the difference between SMN and BLM right now is very minimal. You can pull logs and say "well look SMN is outperforming BLM" and that's honestly because no one is playing it in extremely optimized settings. I can tell you that some of the best BLM players can certainly bridge the gap that exists though. Sure SMN is still a SMALL rDPS gain over BLM if BLM is played optimally, but again that gap is minimal. If more skilled casters actually brought out BLM in speedkill settings, you would see this.

RDM on the other hand is a victim of its own kit. Everyone wants to say RDM damage is so low but did anyone forget that it has the most overpowered raise utility in the game??? Did anyone forget that it has one of the most simplest rotations in the game, and can be played reasonably well with hardly any effort???

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Originally Posted by xxPheNoMeNa

Nonetheless, people need to stop worrying about "speedkill" meta when 99.9% of the playerbase doesn't take part in it. Unless you're actually at the top 1% where optimizing this heavily matters, then "meta" is honestly irrelevant excluding some considerations for progression.

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In my opinion, this still doesn’t really excuse the fact that RDM is so weak in terms of personal DPS with questionable utility to try and “make it up” in rDPS contribution. Verraise’s utility goes away with prog, and Embolden is laughably weak if you look at it compared to the others. Yet, it’s weaker than an equally skilled BRD, who is one of the kings of utility. RDMs don’t have to conform to a “speedkill meta mindset” to want their job to offer more—be it in utility or personal damage.

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Originally Posted by xxPheNoMeNa

RDM on the other hand is a victim of its own kit. Everyone wants to say RDM damage is so low but did anyone forget that it has the most overpowered raise utility in the game??? Did anyone forget that it has one of the most simplest rotations in the game, and can be played reasonably well with hardly any effort???

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Verraise goes away with prog—once you start consistently clearing a fight with zero deaths, that utility is dead. Compare that to the other rBuffs, which never become flat out useless (unless you have a MNK in a triple-caster setting, but even then the tanks still benefit from Brotherhood, which is better than no one “benefiting” from Verraise).

Rotational complexity is a moot point—the developers have flat out said they balance personal DPS with utility, not based on how complex or simple a job is to play. RDM has less utility than other “utility jobs” (this includes SMN), and less personal DPS.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

In my opinion, this still doesn’t really excuse the fact that RDM is so weak in terms of personal DPS with questionable utility to try and “make it up” in rDPS contribution. Verraise’s utility goes away with prog, and Embolden is laughably weak if you look at it compared to the others. Yet, it’s weaker than an equally skilled BRD, who is one of the kings of utility. RDMs don’t have to conform to a “speedkill meta mindset” to want their job to offer more—be it in utility or personal damage.

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Yes, verraise loses value in OPTIMIZED RAIDING, but it still "exists" for everything outside of that... RDM is still borderline OP for raid progression (and any form of casual content) BECAUSE that raise utility exists. People need to understand the overall value their class actually holds, as well as accept the fact that not every class is designed to be of "equal" value to each other for every aspect of the game.