Four Ways to Die - why the Tank Meta feels "off".

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Dark Knight does significantly less damage then Warrior single target [(850m?) vs (1100m?)]. Its also not as if Dark Knight has a significant advantage in defenses over them either, although it is supposed to be an offensive tank as well.

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Currently pulling 1230 on Faust in savage as OT and close to 1k on Oppressor on Drk. Analyzing classes in a vacuum is pretty pointless outside of basic capability assessments. The person playing the class is infinitely more important than the class itself.

Also as someone who has played all the tanks I can say that Pally and Drk are almost nothing alike in play style once you reach end game. At level 30 I would agree with you but in top level content I would have to disagree.

As far as the current tanking meta, I very much enjoy it. It raises the skill ceiling for tanking in the hardcore endgame while keeping the skill floor consistent on the casual side. Its fun for me to go back into fights and try and beat the server records on FFlogs and such every week. It adds something to which would otherwise be just another clear and separates those who are willing to go the extra mile for team work from the people who constantly refuse. "That's not my job" I honestly think the the emphasis on job potential over strict role assignment in raid content is one of the things that really sets this MMO apart from others.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Currently pulling 1230 on Faust in savage as OT and close to 1k on Oppressor on Drk. Analyzing classes in a vacuum is pretty pointless outside of basic capability assessments. The person playing the class is infinitely more important than the class itself.

Also as someone who has played all the tanks I can say that Pally and Drk are almost nothing alike in play style once you reach end game. At level 30 I would agree with you but in top level content I would have to disagree.

As far as the current tanking meta, I very much enjoy it. It raises the skill ceiling for tanking in the hardcore endgame while keeping the skill floor consistent on the casual side. Its fun for me to go back into fights and try and beat the server records on FFlogs and such every week. It adds something to which would otherwise be just another clear and separates those who are willing to go the extra mile for team work from the people who constantly refuse. "That's not my job" I honestly think the the emphasis on job potential over strict role assignment in raid content is one of the things that really sets this MMO apart from others.

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Well, if we are throwing out numbers I heard a Warrior did 1800 on Faust. Warrors have way better ST damage then Darks do. I don't really remember saying they played exactly the same. However the issue mostly is that tanks were made to be better then others in certain areas of the game, which from a developer and design standpoint is terrible.

Tanks should play differently, however they should not be better or worse in a designed roll when there is one class that is designed to be well in both.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Well, if we are throwing out numbers I heard a Warrior did 1800 on Faust. Warrors have way better ST damage then Darks do.

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A WAR doing 1800 on Faust is spending all of his Abandon stacks into useless Decimates just to inflate his DPS. Faust isn't a good way of comparing the DPS of different jobs. In real fights, a MT DRK is the highest MT DPS you can have, and if he drops Grit, can outDPS a Deliverance WAR depending on procs. IMO DRK is completely on par with WAR DPS wise. It just lacks OT utility and a little bit of physical mitigation. If you keep doing pointless arguments like that I'll stop trying to convince you. It's not even what the thread is originally about.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

A WAR doing 1800 on Faust is spending all of his Abandon stacks into useless Decimates just to inflate his DPS. Faust isn't a good way of comparing the DPS of different jobs. In real fights, a MT DRK is the highest MT DPS you can have, and if he drops Grit, can outDPS a Deliverance WAR depending on procs. IMO DRK is completely on par with WAR DPS wise. It just lacks OT utility and a little bit of physical mitigation. If you keep doing pointless arguments like that I'll stop trying to convince you. It's not even what the thread is originally about.

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I'm tired but I just awnsered a reply. I didn't start the argument, if you think its pointless talk to the guy who said it. Also, Dark Knight on par with Warrior and outparsing them? Did they patch the game in the last hour?

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

In real fights, a MT DRK is the highest MT DPS you can have, and if he drops Grit, can outDPS a Deliverance WAR depending on procs. IMO DRK is completely on par with WAR DPS wise.

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WAR still has a decent lead (~5%) over DRK single-target OT (or, no-Grit vs. Deliverance) dps. Moreover, mana needs for incoming mitigation needs may hamper DRK OT dps even further (even before swapping to Grit, and of course the large Grit MP cost does it no favors). DRK has a lesser lead over PLD in dummy dps, and fairs about equally when considering mana is more strained (or mana regen isn't done as much as possible in Grit and expenditure done as much as possible out of Grit). Not much has changed in that department...