XI-2 was released this past September, or didn't you notice?

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

I actually agree with you there Star, except for the last part. You can't really ask ppl to "play the right way." I don't know if I mentioned that in this thread -might have done it in the "abolish the class-system" thread. The reason I would prefer *some restrictiveness is because, like you said, it can make gameplay much more enjoyable. But XI was too restricted. It didn't allow for much versatility. Every DD had to lvl nin, and most of the were "required" to sub it. XIV let's you do whatever you want to any job, so there's no real uniqueness. All DDs are going to grab the best abs from each job and just turn them all into a generic DoW w/ their favorite wpn, basically lol

I just don't want to see that happen. I guess it really is just speculation at this point. All I/we can really do is "hope" that they mold the class system after XI w/o completely copying it, and come up w/ some kind of really great hybrid. I realize that XI's job/sub job system wasn't perfect. I do, however, think it was superior to the class system (at least in terms of likability). I never really did the forum thing, so I don't really know how receptive everyone was to the job/sub job system in XI. Personally, if they had found a way to make war/whm (and other "unconventional" combinations) actually viable, I would have called it flawless lol....That's just me.

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I never said for anyone to "Play a certain way" that not what I said nor I dont want you to put words in my mouth, what I said was " What people make out of the content" meaning play the way THEY want that is most fun way to do it for them. No where in that said nor implied " anyone should play a certain why, and if I said that don't you think I would give an explaination as to how they should play? But I didn't so I'm squashing that right now.

Secondly, Weather they copy the job system from XI is totally up to them "the job system" is in most FF games, now that I think about it in games outside of FF there is the job system. Class and Job work kinda the same way only difference is you can use other abilities from other classes. And they already stated that Classes will turn into jobs and so forth. How is the "FF Tactic way" of doing things anything like FFXI? XI was Job and a Subjob... XIV is going to be Class going to job or ( they also said) Class Class= Job, Right now its just the basics but it will get more Technical down the line.

Also the Job system wasn't SE's Fault They stated NIN was SUPPOSE to be a DD only class but the Community deemed it to be a Tank, and the people that want NIN subbed is again a Community problem not SE's. Just like BRD Nedded to have NIN subbed again that's a community problem not SE's, the Community no matter which game your playing will tell others how to play "the right way" meaning there way.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I never said for anyone to "Play a certain way" that not what I said nor I dont want you to put words in my mouth, what I said was " What people make out of the content" meaning play the way THEY want that is most fun way to do it for them. No where in that said nor implied " anyone should play a certain why, and if I said that don't you think I would give an explaination as to how they should play? But I didn't so I'm squashing that right now.

Secondly, Weather they copy the job system from XI is totally up to them "the job system" is in most FF games, now that I think about it in games outside of FF there is the job system. Class and Job work kinda the same way only difference is you can use other abilities from other classes. And they already stated that Classes will turn into jobs and so forth. How is the "FF Tactic way" of doing things anything like FFXI? XI was Job and a Subjob... XIV is going to be Class going to job or ( they also said) Class Class= Job, Right now its just the basics but it will get more Technical down the line.

Also the Job system wasn't SE's Fault They stated NIN was SUPPOSE to be a DD only class but the Community deemed it to be a Tank, and the people that want NIN subbed is again a Community problem not SE's. Just like BRD Nedded to have NIN subbed again that's a community problem not SE's, the Community no matter which game your playing will tell others how to play "the right way" meaning there way.

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lol sorry, I should have been more clear Star. I meant, you, as in (various random users...not, literally, you xD). The problem with it, though, is "what people make of the content" can often interfere with other people's gameplay. You, yourself, just gave a number of examples of how the "community" can ruin gameplay. And, unfortunately, that's what I see happening in the future. The community is going to deem it "pro" for tanks, DD's, and mages to level a "certain" way; and anyone who doesn't adhere to those "rules," will be pushed aside and ignored. And like I said, no SINGLE job (one w/o any cross-class melding) will ever be on par w/ a other jobs that capitalize on the class system because, if they were, it would make that job too powerful (i.e. they were already on par with other jobs before they used other jobs' abilities -imagine what they would be like if they DID use other jobs' abilities). Basically, there can never be balance unless EVERYONE plays the exact same way: level "all" jobs. Does that make more sense?

Sorry for being unclear xD

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

lol sorry, I should have been more clear Star. I meant, you, as in (various random users...not, literally, you xD). The problem with it, though, is "what people make of the content" can often interfere with other people's gameplay. You, yourself, just gave a number of examples of how the "community" can ruin gameplay. And, unfortunately, that's what I see happening in the future. The community is going to deem it "pro" for tanks, DD's, and mages to level a "certain" way; and anyone who doesn't adhere to those "rules," will be pushed aside and ignored. And like I said, no SINGLE job (one w/o any cross-class melding) will ever be on par w/ a other jobs that capitalize on the class system because, if they were, it would make that job too powerful (i.e. they were already on par with other jobs before they used other jobs' abilities -imagine what they would be like if they DID use other jobs' abilities). Basically, there can never be balance unless EVERYONE plays the exact same way: level "all" jobs. Does that make more sense?

Sorry for being unclear xD

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Yes it does, and in the end I don't think its XI-2 you think it is.. either way.. we both love the game itself and Im quite frankly tried of this debate. I respect your opinion as you should resepct mine. I say we shake hands make up and close this derailing thread that isnt helping this game at all Deal?

Also, just to clarify this is a community problem not SE problem. its the same with every MMO out there this is no different XI is no different, DCUO is no different. Get my what im saying?

Also I do forgive you for being unclear as I apologize myself for misinterpret what you said.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Yes it does, and in the end I don't think its XI-2 you think it is.. either way.. we both love the game itself and Im quite frankly tried of this debate. I respect your opinion as you should resepct mine. I say we shake hands make up and close this derailing thread that isnt helping this game at all Deal?

Also, just to clarify this is a community problem not SE problem. its the same with every MMO out there this is no different XI is no different, DCUO is no different. Get my what im saying?

Also I do forgive you for being unclear as I apologize myself for misinterpret what you said.

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When you say that this is a community problem, it almost sounds like you think the two are mutually exclusive. Each of them builds off of the other. SE creates content; the community abuses it; SE fixes it. That's why jobs get nerfed sometimes, and things like that. So, to dismiss the issue by saying that it's a community "problem," and thus it is "not SE's problem" is very irresponsible. SE needs to find a way to allow MANY different styles of play (full-on melees that don't like to spam "Cure," full-on mages who don't like to "melee," etc.) that allow players to capitalize on all sorts of different aspects of the game (raids, behests, leves, and all future content). The current class system only caters to a small minority (hardcore players); and, yes, we are the minority. Hence, all of WoW's success. Players who don't have time, or are completely discouraged by the idea of "lvling jobs/classes they hate" are going to be neglected, and not be able to enjoy the game to it's fullest.

But, agree to disagree, I guess. *shakes hands*

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

When you say that this is a community problem, it almost sounds like you think the two are mutually exclusive. Each of them builds off of the other. SE creates content; the community abuses it; SE fixes it. That's why jobs get nerfed sometimes, and things like that. So, to dismiss the issue by saying that it's a community "problem," and thus it is "not SE's problem" is very irresponsible. SE needs to find a way to allow MANY different styles of play (full-on melees that don't like to spam "Cure," full-on mages who don't like to "melee," etc.) that allow players to capitalize on all sorts of different aspects of the game (raids, behests, leves, and all future content). The current class system only caters to a small minority (hardcore players); and, yes, we are the minority. Hence, all of WoW's success. Players who don't have time, or are completely discouraged by the idea of "lvling jobs/classes they hate" are going to be neglected, and not be able to enjoy the game to it's fullest.

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That's very true Khal. I think it's really sad that no one realizes the kind of effects the class system is going to have on a great deal of players. It sounds like most of these people only care about their own personal experiences. Pretty much, any idea they don't like gets thrown out the window. Maybe when they realize that server population affects their gameplay, they'll start to think about the game from other players' perspectives.

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Originally Posted by Natabant

That's very true Khal. I think it's really sad that no one realizes the kind of effects the class system is going to have on a great deal of players. It sounds like most of these people only care about their own personal experiences. Pretty much, any idea they don't like gets thrown out the window. Maybe when they realize that server population affects their gameplay, they'll start to think about the game from other players' perspectives.

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Its like that with every MMO not just this one

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Also the Job system wasn't SE's Fault They stated NIN was SUPPOSE to be a DD only class but the Community deemed it to be a Tank, and the people that want NIN subbed is again a Community problem not SE's. Just like BRD Nedded to have NIN subbed again that's a community problem not SE's, the Community no matter which game your playing will tell others how to play "the right way" meaning there way.

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I don't think the creator of the game we know as "chess" intended all of the strats that are possible to exist. But they do. Go figure.

/yawn Oh, this thread is still here. Huh....

Oh sweet Jesus can you two please exchange personal information and go bate this in e-mail? For the love of all things good! *bangs head on wall*

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

Oh sweet Jesus can you two please exchange personal information and go bate this in e-mail? For the love of all things good! *bangs head on wall*

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Thats why I stopped? I have no more reason to continue this debate any further, its giving me a headache