The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Since Arcanist's and Summoner's arrange Aether into mathematical patterns they essentially have the ability to warp and create reality they can even decide what's real and what's unreal. An ability like that is equivalent to manipulating SpaceTime so Summoner's have the power to summon and control the Pimals now if a bunch of Arcanist's and Sunmoner's got together they'd be able to reshape reality into whatever they want.

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That's like saying Physicist can warp reality with calculus.

Arcanist believe that through study, they have come up with a mathematical system (Represented as geometry), that they can use to achieve certain results within the system of magic. They are not re-writing the laws of magic as they go along, only taking advantage of it, as they understand it.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Since Arcanist's and Summoner's arrange Aether into mathematical patterns they essentially have the ability to warp and create reality they can even decide what's real and what's unreal. An ability like that is equivalent to manipulating SpaceTime so Summoner's have the power to summon and control the Pimals now if a bunch of Arcanist's and Sunmoner's got together they'd be able to reshape reality into whatever they want.

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With what you are suggesting why would there be any other classes, or better yet what is the point of anything in the game if summoners can just bend reality to their will? You're going way overboard with how are you trying to define the class. If summoners can just change reality to what they want then why is there even threads from anything except from the possibility of other summoners that have a different agenda? However, I guess you'd be in full support of this since it would be all full of summoners all the time.

Everyone else may have already understood it but I feel like I've just cracked a code after following this bizarre thread.

Akiza, you're talking about changing the Summoner class from a class that summons permanent, less impressive versions of the primals to a class that summons temporary primals (I'd wager more like their proper form just not as big) that will deliver their signature attacks then disappear... like in the majority of previous Final Fantasys?

Am I right or at least in the ball park?

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Originally Posted by KokopokiRirinima

Everyone else may have already understood it but I feel like I've just cracked a code after following this bizarre thread.

Akiza, you're talking about changing the Summoner class from a class that summons permanent, less impressive versions of the primals to a class that summons temporary primals (I'd wager more like their proper form just not as big) that will deliver their signature attacks then disappear... like in the majority of previous Final Fantasys?

Am I right or at least in the ball park?

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He wants to be able to summon big primals to do big attacks once and leave (FFIV,FFVI, FFVII, and so on) AND is able to summon 'medium' primals (Primals, shrunk a smidge) that you can control directly and do awesome stuff with (FFXI).

He essential want to have his cake, eat it, take your cake, eat it, then win the lottery and buy a cake factory.

Of course, he doesn't say as much in a single post, because he knows it sounds absurd. But if you add what he says in multiple post together, that's basically it.

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Originally Posted by faris

Arcanists arrange aether into mathematical patterns to form Carbuncle. Summoners arrange corrupted aether into form, defeat said form, and bind it into an egi. There's no difference, barring the soul of the summoner granting the summoner the ability to bind the aether into egis, rather than a carbuncle-like form.

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I was doing something completely unrelated when I thought about this line randomly; in the context of the game, it actually makes perfect sense as to why you have poisons as dots if you're dousing them in corrupted aether. o_o

I've found the meaning of life! They actually should have at least mentioned this in the Arcanist story...

Also, Summoners manipulate that stuff Pyreflies are made of in FF10 to create Aeons that are bound to the Fayth's soul. The pyreflies and aether are functionally the exact same thing, and the Primals are the same as the Fayth; the only difference is that you're taking a fraction of their soul rather than being granted their full power as in other games. The concept is exactly the same as previous Summoners, but the scale is changed to fit the game balance (that and you're binding a malevolent entity).

All makes perfect sense to me.

Conceptually SMN isn't quite what I want it to be, but I don't think anyone denies it does its DPS job well. And being able to swiftcast resurrection is arguably the next best support skill for a DPS aside from Mage's Ballad.

My main hope with SMN isn't changing the mechanics (since that's a lost cause) but making it more visually appealing either with cooler Egi pets or allowing mods with the game eventually that the community can help to modify for vanity purposes. But the whole 'avatar-sized-egis would cause too much lag!' is bs. Most of the content in this game is 8 man. You wouldn't have more than 2 SMNs in a party reasonably. No one wants primal-sized Egi's, sheesh. Aside from maybe for the Limit Break... :)

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Originally Posted by Bombast

That's like saying Physicist can warp reality with calculus.

Arcanist believe that through study, they have come up with a mathematical system (Represented as geometry), that they can use to achieve certain results within the system of magic. They are not re-writing the laws of magic as they go along, only taking advantage of it, as they understand it.

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There is a theory by Max Tegmart that says the Universe is a mathematical structure and if we were able to find the single equation that describes the universe we will be masters of reality.
Magic by definition doesn't have any laws it has types of users. Now the power of a magic user is determined by their will not by any law.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

There is a theory by Max Tegmart that says the Universe is a mathematical structure and if we were able to find the single equation that describes the universe we will be masters of reality.
Magic by definition doesn't have any laws it has types of users. Now the power of a magic user is determined by their will not by any law.

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I just wish for a reality where you don't exist.

I think it's time we just let this one go. It's a lost cause, and getting more bizarre by the moment. It's obvious that none of this can be taken seriously now (if that wasn't apparent before).

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Originally Posted by Bombast

He wants to be able to summon big primals to do big attacks once and leave (FFIV,FFVI, FFVII, and so on) AND is able to summon 'medium' primals (Primals, shrunk a smidge) that you can control directly and do awesome stuff with (FFXI).

He essential want to have his cake, eat it, take your cake, eat it, then win the lottery and buy a cake factory.

Of course, he doesn't say as much in a single post, because he knows it sounds absurd. But if you add what he says in multiple post together, that's basically it.

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I want a pet buff that commands the Egi to do an elemental aoe attack that leaves a 20s dot.
I want a pet buff that temporarily transforms the Egi into it's Parent Primal and cause weather affects so everyone know I summoned it.
That's reasonable.