Would you like an in-game parser?

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Originally Posted by odintius

I can understand that but going from a poor player to straight up pro isn't going to happen over night

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Is it bad when a fresh player from 2 monts ago perform better than a player who played for 3 years? Those guy straight up refuse to get better. Yes even if a parser was official they still and mostlikely not improve. But they can see how much they are doing compare to the rest and hopefully they improve.

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Originally Posted by Taika

The issue is, many people who are playing poorly don't know that. They think they're using a rotation which makes sense, and they aren't making many mistakes, but their DPS can still be 1k below the other DDs in the party. How do you fix this without implementing a parser?

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Probably because they don't care as long as they beat it if not they keep trying or give up we should ask the jp community how they do it because from what I've seen most play on ps4 or has way better community compare to us as a culture. For NA community even if paser was fully implemented it i still see having the problems, sure the people who try will use it and improve but honestly for how the game design and target players are I have my doubts this will change anything either.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Probably because they don't care as long as they beat it if not they keep trying or give up we should ask the jp community how they do it because from what I've seen most play on ps4 or has way better community compare to us as a culture. For NA community even if paser was fully implemented it i still see having the problems, sure the people who try will use it and improve but honestly for how the game design and target players are I have my doubts this will change anything either.

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Last time I did OS4 with a pug I had a DD who was doing 3600 DPS. They did 0 mechanic mistakes and had 0 deaths. We beat the fight, but if everyone would have been playing like they did, we would not have been able to beat the fight. Now some of us were performing much higher and we were able to carry them through. Does that seem fair to you? Because it sure doesn't for me. We beat the fight yes, but they weren't performing well enough to be able to beat the fight (without others working extra hard).

And what if we would have had more people playing at that level and we wouldn't have had a parser, what would you suggest we would have done then? Just disband the whole group because we wouldn't have been able to figure out where the issue was?

Also, there are countless JP parse logs uploaded online just like for NA and EU players.

Edit: For the record, I also don't care about anyone's DPS or performance as long as they're performing well enough to be able to beat the content they've signed up for without forcing others to carry them (as long as they're doing enough DPS to meet enrage requirements, for example, when it's a clear or farm party, not practice). But there are many, many players who are not capable of this, and not letting them or their party know the fact is not helping anyone in any way.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Last time I did OS4 with a pug I had a DD who was doing 3600 DPS. They did 0 mechanic mistakes and had 0 deaths. We beat the fight, but if everyone would have been playing like they did, we would not have been able to beat the fight. Now some of us were performing much higher and we were able to carry them through. Does that seem fair to you? Because it sure doesn't for me. We beat the fight yes, but they weren't performing well enough to be able to beat the fight (without others working extra hard).

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What you feel isn't going to change how a NA player plays with or without a paser fair or not either find a group that can role with, move to a jp server, kick them or deal with it! If a paser does come those players will have to deal with it as well imo /shrug so jp do have a better culture it would seem need to learn the language

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Originally Posted by odintius

What you feel isn't going to change how a NA player plays with or without a paser fair or not either find a group that can role with, move to a jp server, kick them or deal with it! If a paser does come those players will have to deal with it as well imo /shrug so jp do have a better culture it would seem need to learn the language

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You didn't answer my questions. :) Also, to my knowledge (from what I've read from these forums, no personal experience), JP servers have a much stronger DF/RF culture: they expect you to know the fight and perform well enough when you're queueing for Duty Finder or Raid Finder, and they reserve Party Finder for practice. The standard for expectations seems to be actually much higher on JP than EU/NA servers, which I guess is why they also tend to have higher clear rates for content. Although parsers are heavily utilised on all three server groups. :)

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Originally Posted by Taika

You didn't answer my questions. :) Also, to my knowledge (from what I've read from these forums, no personal experience), JP servers have a much stronger DF/RF culture: they expect you to know the fight and perform well enough when you're queueing for Duty Finder or Raid Finder, and they reserve Party Finder for practice. The standard for expectations seems to be actually much higher on EU/NA servers, which I guess is why they also tend to have higher clear rates for content. Although parsers are heavily utilised on all three server groups. :)

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Their is no real answer with how NA do things people play how they play because their isnt a punishment besides not being able to complete that content for doing so weather or not it fair to you or others for being more skilled.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Anyway time to go put up a PF for Susano EX i340.......

Shoot.....

OH EM GEE Hyomin! Way to ruin my day! xD

Now what will I do! Gosh darnit.

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Now, now Miste. Play nice. ;p
If you wanna do it the right way, you gotta set a Susano Ex Farm for ilevel 400. That’s how it’s really done. Gonna get all the good deeps then. ;p

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

And on the same side of that coin you also can't disprove it either. You can say the burden of proof lies with the claimant; which is true, but when people claim there's not enough proof of harassment, it is also demonstrably false, as absence of proof does not equate proof of absence. The only side that can provide any sort of factual numbers for or against either case is the XIV team. But utilizing simple observations of complaints in the mistreatment of certain features; such as the Party Finder and Mentor channels, that turn up on the forums is justification for concern.

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Contrary to what I think you’re thinking, I’m not trying to prove anything. All I am saying is that personal anecdotes can never be a solid basis for an objective argument. I have never pulled out any statistics from thin air to try and justify why I am “pro-parser”, but I see such behavior frequently from the opposite side, as well as using their own personal experiences (anecdotes) to cloud their judgment rather than looking at a situation objectively. That is what I take issue with: people making up statistics to further their own arguments (I’ve already touched on this in other posts in this thread); using the reasoning “parsers breed toxicity”, but then proceed in the same breath to demand SE “ban everyone who parses on the spot”, calls pro-parsers names (again, “parsetard” is now a personal favorite)...basically just combating toxicity with their own toxicity and trying to claim only the pro-parser crowd is the toxic crowd; or people that try to pass off their personal experiences as pervasive facts.

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Those are feature's meant for making parties and people searching for help respectively. And yet seem to be points of contention, vitriol, and at times harassment if we follow some of the forum complaints. It's not much of a stretch to think or even make claims that a group wide parser will be mistreated. A good tool in the hands of those that know what it's for and how to handle the information, a weapon in the hands of others that don't, and it's not worth the chance of alienating parts of the community moreso than what it is.

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Using this logic, though, you could simultaneously set up an argument against Party Finder the same way you would parsers:

Example
“Parsers breed toxicity and discrimination on the basis of a person’s DPS.”
—Party Finder is already full of parties with minimum ilevel requirements of i330/i335 for fights like Susano Ex or Lakshmi Ex, which need no where near that requirement to actually clear; those parties are discriminating against individuals that fail to meet those item levels, indirectly discriminating upon players’ DPS, since a lot of people assume higher item level = higher DPS (Tridus already touched on this).
—Party Finder is full of parties that have locked job slots to certain jobs or say “no doubles”, discriminating against other jobs or players that want to only play one job but can’t because they’re either locked out of the party or it would be a double job (though for Savage, I understand completely the “no doubles” for roles because DPS loot—tanks and heals aren’t so lucky, unfortunately).
—Party Finder is full of parties that have in the descriptions “Wipe on Phase 1 and disband”; one could say these are “potentially toxic” environments if one is following the whole “Skip Soar or disband” meme that was prevalent during 3.55 when ZurvanEx came out.

Party Finder already has the potential to breed toxicity and discrimination, and already had the potential to alienate parts of the community, yet it is still in this game. Why should a parser be treated any different? Why treat one tool differently and prohibit it, but allow another to “pass”? They’re both tools, are they not? One can mistreat the Party Finder the same way one would mistreat a parser, just the execution of said mistreatment would be different. But the concept is the same.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

Honestly, at this point most people can easily collect full 330 Creation gear.
I haven't played for 4 months(since mid-august,came back like a week ago) and my BRD/MCH is at ilvl 336 from that time.
TL;DR ilvl 330 is "low" for your "main" class.
Plus there Ivalice, one free ilvl330 + one 340 upgrade every week.

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One a week isn't a lot when you play multiple jobs. My PLD isn't 330 yet, but my WHM and SCH are both over it (but only 334, so not by that much). To suggest I don't know how to do the fight on one and do know on the other would be rather odd, since I got my first clear on the PLD. Yet, that's what these item level restrictions effectively do.

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This, actually, is not parser-related and exist because there's "no official parser".
People like to play it safe, so they put a high ilvl requirement, so that they'l get mostly people, who "main" that class. Because if you "main" X class, you should be far higher in ilvl, than 330, even if you just collect Creation gear + Ivalice + those upgrades to 340. (aka doing zero Savages)

p.s. I also got 4-5 340 upgrades items from Hunts. Forgot about those.

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It is parser related though, since an argument anti parser people use is that having parsers would lead to discrimination on the basis of DPS. We already have that, we just have it on the basis of assumed DPS using ilvl as a proxy, which isn't exactly accurate.

I mean, it's a lot more useful to be able to say "we hit the enrage because you're doing 1000 DPS", rather than "we hit the enrage, must be because 325 gear isn't good enough for this fight."

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Fine. Take it however you want then. Seems pointless to argue.
I don't want a parser in this game. The end.

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Fortunately, there's many other players who do want an official parser. At the very least, I'm happy Square decided to adopt a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. In all my time in Savage, I have yet to be harassed or kicked for DPS numbers, even when the MT is pulling 4500+ on damage and I'm doing about 3500. I don't know where people are saying parsing equals harassment, maybe that was with the Alex runs, but I personally have yet to see it myself.

Side note: I'm on PS4, so I always assume I'm being parsed in high-end duties. Still haven't run into any issues over my damage numbers. In fact, I tend to ask what they are so I can figure out what I'm not doing to break into 4k damage territory.

I want to say this now I have never done end game content so my opinion may not matter but I'll type it anyway. I can see both sides of the argument here, but I noticed people said people being harassed from parsers is not very common as the "anti parser" player claim it is. To these people it seems even once is enough to make them anti parse.Harrasment is not always the same for everyone, a player could have been told "you suck quit the game" or have a large amount of insults thrown at them and if they have anxiety or depression it could seem much worse to them than others would see it. I know for a fact there are people who parse that are great people. I forgot to mention something if someone tells you you're doing something to wrong please dont over react and throw insults try to keep an open mind and you may improve.