What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It may be my understanding of the term here that's the issue, but this is less a case of burn out and more an issue of whether the game is/will be a good fit for that poster's tastes. Same with me, and several others in this thread. While the intention is to keep an eye on the new story (and also gameplay) to see if matters improve, it's different to the usual type of burn out.
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That expresses my feelings on things. At this point I don't really have any faith in them telling a story I want to experience or telling it well. At the moment I am planning on a extended break as I don't find the game engaging anymore and may wait on feedback from people on how things are in 6.1.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

What’s ironic is i almost guarantee it was tagged as such by one of the well known people here who take offense to any form of criticism, mainly because that’s very common terminology they use. Ironically they also complain about people derailing/insulting conversations

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You can just mouse-over the tags and see who added what, but yeah it's pretty childish taking jabs each other through tags.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Minfilia was a zealot. I love how they portrayed Hydaelyn telling her to kill herself and Minfilia obliging as her acting of her own free will. It was cultist behavior. Thancred, despite his complete inability to move on from Minfilia, is never once upset with Hydaelyn about this either. Even when he finds out Hydaelyn is a primal in 5.0 he refuses to believe any negative implications that has for Minfilia. The 3.2 artwork also shows Minfilia chained to the Mothercrystal. Minfilia herself says that until she offered herself up as a vessel she was alone in the aetherial sea. I'm always baffled by the ones who say there was no evidence Hydaelyn wasn't good when there's a long history of her being shady even without the Ascian perspective.

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Honestly this is what finally drove me to hate hydaelyn in the first place. I'm one of the dozen people who loves minfilia, so sorry to say that there's no way for me to forgive her for what she's done. Asking minfilia to kill herself, then left her alone to try saving the First until the WoL come. Imagine having to reborn, fight in wars, died painfully; over and over again for 100 years.

And yes, it's so strange that thancred doesn't have any reaction whatsoever when he finally face to face with hydaelyn.

Apparently venat has enough power to fight us, and the aether she accumulated has leftover that's enough to empower Zenos for a trip to ultima Thule. And yet she still ask for her follower to died so she can used her.... Man, if this game gave me options, I probably would beat venat to (half)death during our spar back in elpis.

What up everyone, it's me getting a second character through MSQ, on my way to fixing the timeline:
https://i.imgur.com/cZQ4Ljv.png

I am heartbroken to report she survived with 10% HP.

I'd forgotten how much of a mood literally every single one of Emet's lines in Ktisis was, too. In fact, Emet throughout the last third of Elpis is, frankly, the most relatable character in Endwalker (I mean beside the one Ea lying flat beside a pond, going "Aaaaahhh" when you walk by). This dude has had it with Hermes, openly musing he doesn't get him and frankly doesn't even care what he thinks if push comes to shove, which it does, and I am here for it. The way he replies with irritation every time Hermes opens his mouth in Ktisis, complaining about this whole ordeal being a waste of his time (chef's kiss) RIP pre-BS-memory-wipe Emet-Selch, you were too good for this convoluted plot that needs Olympic gymnastics to work.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The Twinning dungeon having us go in and break the time machine in the Crystal Tower felt like the writers not-so-subtly saying "Okay, there isn't going to be any more timey-wimey nonsense." then they doubled back on that and made it have much further reaching implications/effects then any of the prior instances of it did.

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Oh my god I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was the point of the Twinning too. We destroyed the Ironworks Alexander! Doc Brown here shouldn't be able to send us back in time, no matter how much delicious Primal Juice he's hopped up on. Or... if that wasn't it, what was the point of the Twinning? Am I just naive for asking what the point of a side dungeon was?

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Of course, I'm one of those weirdos who enjoyed the ascians since 2.0, as they kind of had that OrgXIII thing going on where it seemed like there was more to them and their 'dark god', each one was a (loveable) jerk in their own way, and that each member seemed to have their own agenda and clashed with each other ala Nabriales, and the scene where Elidibus has to tug the leash on Lahabrea, and Fandaniel. And the rest of 4-5 left who we haven't seen yet. The cool robes and masks and the extradimensional crystal clubhouse with the chairs also helps.

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God, yes. Not going to lie, at one point in Elpis I dared to dream we might see them all as the Convocation in a cutscene, even if just as a cameo each. Maybe finally give us definite info on their respective seats, masks, sigils, idk, something, come on Square Enix you're the ones who told me this storyline would wrap up Hydaelyn/Zodiark things and that I was free to let my expectations run wild (he said this before the February EW reveal, didn't he?).

I legit wanted 6.0 to feature at least a couple of remaining Ascians as allies against Fandaniel. Thoughts and prayers for Pashtarot who actually had a voiced line in the 2.0 epilogue.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m happy i’m not the only one that was upset at this. This major character built up over expansions just one and done within 2 patches and then there’s just a tea party after as if we didn’t just exterminate an entire race of people??? Honestly all the writers have shown me from 5.3+ onwards is that they’re either lazy or just can’t handle finishing a product to the end.

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Sweet baby Zodiark look at the time, it's almost Day 100 of mourning the expectations I had for the longest-standing antagonist that had just recently been revealed as being literally Zodiark's acting consciousness just a couple of patches before the grand finale of the Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc which he was surely going to play a major part in. To this day I'm still not sure who I should be angrier at: the writers, or my dumb-ass self, for thinking 5.3 was actually just the Part 1 to Actually Zodiark As A Character and that it being rushed was going to be redeemed in 6.0.

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

Y'know, I think hearing the producer himself say "you guys are looking at the story too much"(paraphrasing) really deflated me, more than I realized at the time. I think the theory crafting that the fanbase does is pretty standard stuff, and the questions that were asked in that LL were questions that I've heard many people ask before in online discussion. But if we're overthinking it then what does that mean for the actual writing team? Do they not consider the resolutions of things they create beforehand? Their established lore? If I care about their story and characters this much and am told it's too much, should I not even bother anymore?

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Same. It's disappointing that the writers themselves don't think about the finer points of the lore they're crafting. (Are they new to fandoms? This is what people do!) Plus, Yoshi-P's response of "come up with your own theory" to some fairly important questions. I also don't understand their treatment of Azem. I'll be honest, they've painted Azem (and the WoL by extension) as someone who has the polar opposite personality that I do, that's apparently fine, but we can't know what they were up to during the Final Days or have a glyph design for them because that's stepping on headcanon toes?

I've gotten the feeling with EW that they have an image in mind of an MMO player. Specifically that we're all travelers at heart who enjoy challenge just for the sake of it. The 4th wall breaking encounters, where we're not allowed to answer in any meaningful capacity, further emphasized that with Venat you've loved everything about your journey, with Zenos you want to fight him no matter what, or with Thancred you loved joining the Scions. I would say maybe I ask for too much, but I still remember at the beginning of SB when Alphinaud asked me if I'd help them with Ala Mhigo I was able to say it's not my problem. He was disappointed, and it didn't change anything, but at least I got to say it! EW was like, if you don't have anything nice to say you don't get to say anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Apparently venat has enough power to fight us, and the aether she accumulated has leftover that's enough to empower Zenos for a trip to ultima Thule. And yet she still ask for her follower to died so she can used her.... Man, if this game gave me options, I probably would beat venat to (half)death during our spar back in elpis.

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Yeah, and there's no way she could've planned for Zenos, in fact, I've wondered if he's a wildcard in our timeline since he is the one who stopped Black Rose. I thought the line about Emet 'finding a way' would've led to something, but nope. -_- I never liked Minfilia, but I can acknowledge that she was done dirty by Hydaelyn, even worse when you see Argos. :P Krile was all too willing to offer herself up to the same treatment too, which I'll never understand because at that point in the story we knew she was a primal who had sundered the world and we didn't know what her intentions were, so whyTF would you be like, "Oh, it's totally cool if you use me!" Honestly, a lot of the story makes more sense if Hydaelyn does temper because everyone just turns stupid in her presence.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

To this day I'm still not sure who I should be angrier at: the writers, or my dumb-ass self, for thinking 5.3 was actually just the Part 1 to Actually Zodiark As A Character and that it being rushed was going to be redeemed in 6.0.

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I'm hesitant to be angry at the writers because I still think there's a possibility Ishikawa was pressured to change the story. I can't be mad at her if it turns out it's someone at corporate who would've gotten their knickers in a twist if Hydaelyn was portrayed as anything but good. Or, gods help us, if it was the ethics committee who had a problem with it. I'm reminded of when the writer of AoT wanted to kill Sasha and his editor was so distraught over it that he let her survive what was supposed to be a fatal encounter.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

You can just mouse-over the tags and see who added what, but yeah it's pretty childish taking jabs each other through tags.

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Thanks for the tip! Now I know who to utterly ignore going forward.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I never liked Minfilia, but I can acknowledge that she was done dirty by Hydaelyn, even worse when you see Argos. :P Krile was all too willing to offer herself up to the same treatment too, which I'll never understand because at that point in the story we knew she was a primal who had sundered the world and we didn't know what her intentions were, so whyTF would you be like, "Oh, it's totally cool if you use me!" Honestly, a lot of the story makes more sense if Hydaelyn does temper because everyone just turns stupid in her presence.

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I think your on to something that with, I'm one of the rare people that liked Minfilia but Venat just seems to have used people. The game states a lot the love she has for all of her Children but the game never shows us that, but at least for me it's been easy to see how she's been using people but we've seen very little actual affection from her and the mother crystal things feels like a lie as she's not so it makes her use of the people who believe in her feel at least to me evil.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Krile was all too willing to offer herself up to the same treatment too, which I'll never understand because at that point in the story we knew she was a primal who had sundered the world and we didn't know what her intentions were, so whyTF would you be like, "Oh, it's totally cool if you use me!" Honestly, a lot of the story makes more sense if Hydaelyn does temper because everyone just turns stupid in her presence.

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Glad I'm not the only one bugged by this. I liked Krile but this absolute faith in a goddess which they actually know nothing about in the end is beyond understandable. She did basically ask Minfillia to die and the girl obliged, and she was pushing Krile to the limit as well.Y'shtola even got worried in Labyrinthos to begin with, but as soon as we find out it's Hydaelyn trying to talk, everything turns all good & do as you wish. None of her manipulations has ever been addressed, it's simply pushed under the carpet. All the scions act with same level of devotion to Hydaelyn as would tempered.
Yet we get the discourse from lopporitts that big bad ascians are the ones that included nasty elements in primal summoning that lead to tempering, the all-loving mother Hydaelyn doesn't do that of course. Once again pushing further the "Hydaelyn good" compared to ascians, once again throwing a bucket of white paint on her and black paint on ascians instead of letting them in the grey area.
It's just yet another great disservice to the story when you get scions acting the way they did, not questioning anything and being extremely accepting of condemnable behaviours from their self-made mother goddess. All in all, I agree they should've had the same treatment as the ascians and have a certain level of tempering to explain their questionable attitude. Either that or the reverse and have none of the two side tempered.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Same. It's disappointing that the writers themselves don't think about the finer points of the lore they're crafting. (Are they new to fandoms? This is what people do!) Plus, Yoshi-P's response of "come up with your own theory" to some fairly important questions. I also don't understand their treatment of Azem. I'll be honest, they've painted Azem (and the WoL by extension) as someone who has the polar opposite personality that I do, that's apparently fine, but we can't know what they were up to during the Final Days or have a glyph design for them because that's stepping on headcanon toes?

I've gotten the feeling with EW that they have an image in mind of an MMO player. Specifically that we're all travelers at heart who enjoy challenge just for the sake of it. The 4th wall breaking encounters, where we're not allowed to answer in any meaningful capacity, further emphasized that with Venat you've loved everything about your journey, with Zenos you want to fight him no matter what, or with Thancred you loved joining the Scions. I would say maybe I ask for too much, but I still remember at the beginning of SB when Alphinaud asked me if I'd help them with Ala Mhigo I was able to say it's not my problem. He was disappointed, and it didn't change anything, but at least I got to say it! EW was like, if you don't have anything nice to say you don't get to say anything at all.

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You've hit on some of the parts of it I really didn't like. I almost get the sense that they weight some sources of feedback (e.g. reddit) too much when considering their "fan service". Ordinarily I just brush that sort of stuff aside, as I find it a little cringeworthy, but EW had too many issues combined for me to do so.

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I'm hesitant to be angry at the writers because I still think there's a possibility Ishikawa was pressured to change the story. I can't be mad at her if it turns out it's someone at corporate who would've gotten their knickers in a twist if Hydaelyn was portrayed as anything but good. Or, gods help us, if it was the ethics committee who had a problem with it. I'm reminded of when the writer of AoT wanted to kill Sasha and his editor was so distraught over it that he let her survive what was supposed to be a fatal encounter.

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Aye, I'm not too sure it's either her or Yoshi to blame. I have a feeling his heart is more in XVI and that with XIV it's just a case of keeping the bills paid, hence the indifference and blasé attitude to the lore questions, and that this was more so calculated based on what they thought would get the best audience response, albeit based on the tastes of a specific audience.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The Elpis story arc was really the only part of Endwalker that hugely disappointed me in hindsight because it betrayed my expectations and not in a good way.

The Twinning dungeon having us go in and break the time machine in the Crystal Tower felt like the writers not-so-subtly saying "Okay, there isn't going to be any more timey-wimey nonsense." then they doubled back on that and made it have much further reaching implications/effects then any of the prior instances of it did.

There was so little foreshadowing or build-up to the twist it just felt really...cheap compared to every other major story beat in XIV overall.

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I completely forgot about that.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You've hit on some of the parts of it I really didn't like. I almost get the sense that they weight some sources of feedback (e.g. reddit) too much when considering their "fan service". Ordinarily I just brush that sort of stuff aside, as I find it a little cringeworthy, but EW had too many issues combined for me to do so.



Aye, I'm not too sure it's either her or Yoshi to blame. I have a feeling his heart is more in XVI and that with XIV it's just a case of keeping the bills paid, hence the indifference and blasé attitude to the lore questions, and that this was more so calculated based on what they thought would get the best audience response, albeit based on the tastes of a specific audience.



I completely forgot about that.

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I mean...the man did just say that he's going to continue working on FFXIV until either he's fired or he dies in the recent live letter. I dont see that comment being said by any average joe who's working this game just to pay the bills. People just have indifferent opinions about EW's story and thats fine honestly. I dont see the much of the issues with the narrative and personally find a lot of you guys are either stretching it or being plain nitpicky. To me in every expansion's narrative there's always highs and lows; including Heavensward and Shadowbringers. There's some aspects in EW's story that I wish were explored a little more or some didnt click for me but there were still more positives than negatives for me to just write off as "lackluster" in general. This is just me though.