Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

I don't think the Scions are the problem. The problem is that they are now being written with writer's awareness of their own legacy, at least in the patch content. Part of it is the voice direction as well in my opinion. It sounds a little TOO "oh my we are off to our next little adventure" and G'raha is constantly trying too hard to seem like the highly dependable academic. I feel like the writing is missing human elements...that's what made Endwalker so good imo because we got moments where Scions had to deal with some anxieties for once. Nowadays they act like nothing is a big deal because they beat you know who. I think the more they speak that way and the more the dialogue stays oriented around that idea, the more frustrated the audience is going to be. The writers really need to dig deep and think up new arcs for these characters.

I think at least Y'shtola and G'raha have still goals to achieve. Y'shtola has the First and Runar (which for some reason cannot be said out loud) an G'raha has the promise of adventure (technically has happened with secrets of the realm).

The twins and Estinien have no reason to come to Tural other than just for the ???.

Thancred and Urianger have at least been written to serve a purpose it seems.

I don't dislike having all the Scions around but....what was even the point of "disbanding," even if only a facade, if the Scooby gang still ends up hanging out permanently. People have eyes lol

After 6.0 I thought we'd have them split into each type of content, like, Y'shtola and Estinien for the MSQ, G'raha and Krille for the alliance raid, Thancred and Urianger for the raids, the twins with not-Doma/Ishgard restoration, and Tataru doing her own thing, with only cameos of each other here and there. Personally I think something like that would work as a means to have all the Scions still active but not together at all times, and would also give other/new characters a time to shine (Twelve know the "B Team" Scions need some love).

My thoughts:

It would have been totally acceptable to have the Scions casually come along to the new world and spend the entire time chilling on vacation in the background A kind of easter egg appearance to reward them for the last ten years. I wouldn't mind if they were present as long as they were relegated to very minor cameos while we dealt in our own adventures and met new cast members. Krile and Erenville would have been plenty to serve as anchors for a new Dawntrail cast.

But making them all central players yet again just really cheapens the whole experience; even before the expansion has launched we can see a lot of forced writing to (a) get everyone over to Tural and (b) create motivational conflict. None of it feels natural. I can absolutely assure you we are going to see a lot of retrodden dialogue beats: someone eats local cuisine, someone works too hard and falls asleep, Alisae gets angry at something, Alphinaud does a politic; Y'Shtola death fakeouts; Urianger can't swim. They really are shooting themselves in the foot trying to keep this cast together. None of it feels in service of any of these characters. And if all we wanted was to see G'Raha eat a taco and Thancred hunt for treasure, those singular plot beats are not enough to merit an entire story focused on these characters. All of this could have been happening in NPC dialogue and side quests.

It may be far too late to hope, but I really do hope the Scions stay out of the way once they get off the ship. I don't want them featuring in this story.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I don't dislike having all the Scions around but....what was even the point of "disbanding," even if only a facade, if the Scooby gang still ends up hanging out permanently. People have eyes lol

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The point was to realign the overall purpose of the group and free the characters up to pursue their own projects instead of working with the city leaders.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I don't dislike having all the Scions around but....what was even the point of "disbanding," even if only a facade, if the Scooby gang still ends up hanging out permanently. People have eyes lol

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I think it's more "stop calling us to deal with your problems now" as opposed to "let's stop hanging out". Like people who still hang out after their company closes.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

My thoughts:

It would have been totally acceptable to have the Scions casually come along to the new world and spend the entire time chilling on vacation in the background A kind of easter egg appearance to reward them for the last ten years. I wouldn't mind if they were present as long as they were relegated to very minor cameos while we dealt in our own adventures and met new cast members. Krile and Erenville would have been plenty to serve as anchors for a new Dawntrail cast.

But making them all central players yet again just really cheapens the whole experience; even before the expansion has launched we can see a lot of forced writing to (a) get everyone over to Tural and (b) create motivational conflict. None of it feels natural. I can absolutely assure you we are going to see a lot of retrodden dialogue beats: someone eats local cuisine, someone works too hard and falls asleep, Alisae gets angry at something, Alphinaud does a politic; Y'Shtola death fakeouts; Urianger can't swim. They really are shooting themselves in the foot trying to keep this cast together. None of it feels in service of any of these characters. And if all we wanted was to see G'Raha eat a taco and Thancred hunt for treasure, those singular plot beats are not enough to merit an entire story focused on these characters. All of this could have been happening in NPC dialogue and side quests.

It may be far too late to hope, but I really do hope the Scions stay out of the way once they get off the ship. I don't want them featuring in this story.

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Also as a follow-up: I suspect this is more about politicking the voice actors and keeping everyone employed year by year.

In which case, I think a very adjacent complaint is having to listen to Amanda Achen again. I don't think her voice is so amazing that it needs to be in the permanent soundscape of the game. It is fine, but it doesn't feel very FF and felt very forced in Endwalker and now Dawntrail. The Open Sky track is especially cringey when she tries to squeak out a note that is too high for her to pull off.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The standalone games are also separate stories, while XIV is one long continuing story, so that's apples and oranges.

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Sure, but that doesn't mean we HAVE to drag every Scion along on every expansion. It would be fun to hit the new continent with some underdeveloped Scions and novel crew. It beats watching the same characters do the same things the second or third expansion in a row.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Also as a follow-up: I suspect this is more about politicking the voice actors and keeping everyone employed year by year.

In which case, I think a very adjacent complaint is having to listen to Amanda Achen again. I don't think her voice is so amazing that it needs to be in the permanent soundscape of the game. It is fine, but it doesn't feel very FF and felt very forced in Endwalker and now Dawntrail. The Open Sky track is especially cringey when she tries to squeak out a note that is too high for her to pull off.

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Try japanese dub, it's night and day in comparison

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

My thoughts:

It would have been totally acceptable to have the Scions casually come along to the new world and spend the entire time chilling on vacation in the background A kind of easter egg appearance to reward them for the last ten years. I wouldn't mind if they were present as long as they were relegated to very minor cameos while we dealt in our own adventures and met new cast members. Krile and Erenville would have been plenty to serve as anchors for a new Dawntrail cast.

But making them all central players yet again just really cheapens the whole experience; even before the expansion has launched we can see a lot of forced writing to (a) get everyone over to Tural and (b) create motivational conflict. None of it feels natural. I can absolutely assure you we are going to see a lot of retrodden dialogue beats: someone eats local cuisine, someone works too hard and falls asleep, Alisae gets angry at something, Alphinaud does a politic; Y'Shtola death fakeouts; Urianger can't swim. They really are shooting themselves in the foot trying to keep this cast together. None of it feels in service of any of these characters. And if all we wanted was to see G'Raha eat a taco and Thancred hunt for treasure, those singular plot beats are not enough to merit an entire story focused on these characters. All of this could have been happening in NPC dialogue and side quests.

It may be far too late to hope, but I really do hope the Scions stay out of the way once they get off the ship. I don't want them featuring in this story.

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Yeah I really like this take.

I would be fine with Scion social cameos, but I really don't want to see Alphinaud settle a local difference with an obvious solution again or watch Thancred sneak around again. I'd rather see some unknown characters we can meet and watch develop. Maybe even a bard!