The story is great, but it blatantly gets in the way of the rest of the game

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Considering the fact that the purpose behind the creation and continuing development of this game is the story, with dungeons and trials contributing to that story (not separated from the story like so many other MMOs), you are asking the developers to abandon the basis of the game in order to satisfy some supposed 'new player' experience.

Do you ask that of every game you play? Completely abandon the reason the game is different in order for it to better conform to what you think the game should be?

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I wouldn't say its a reason this game is different. Maybe you don't play a lot of MMO's but they also have stories with dungeons, trials contributing to that story. They also have ways to not have to do it multiple times on alt characters, or developed long enough to allow players to hop in and progress the way they choose. I think we are at that time where that should be allowed. And I never said to abandon the basis of the game, I said make it better for the new players. If you can't attract and retain new players, the game will eventually die. These changes don't affect me at all it simply helps new players. Sorry if I don't believe they should have to pay $50 to do that SE milks enough money from the rest of us off this game.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

While story isn't the only reason that people play this game, it is the primary reason the game was developed in the first place. It's what makes the game part of the Final Fantasy franchise.

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You can lie to yourself and say this, it was developed for steady profit to fund into other projects. I would not be surprised if after EW the funds allocated to FFXIV are cut in half and more money is funneled to other projects as the story is now complete. It will just be a passion projects like FFXI. That being said it can still have a story... you act as though allowing other people to not do the story, your story experience is going to suffer. I don't see why it hurts you or others to allow players to level the way they want up to the current expansion. I never said anything about skipping the current expansions MSQ that should still be gated behind the MSQ for obvious reasons. I am just saying don't charge people to skip, give them options, it just makes for a better game over all.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

You can lie to yourself and say this, it was developed for steady profit to fund into other projects.

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Pfui. You should be well aware of the fact that the statement "games are developed for steady profit" is already assumed in any discussion about the direction of a game.

Please let me know if you, personally, never make that assumption when discussing the reasons games are not all designed the same way.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I never said anything about skipping the current expansions MSQ that should still be gated behind the MSQ for obvious reasons.

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Herein lies the problem. "You let me skip all the MSQ up to this point. Why do I have to do it now? I don't care about the story. I just want to get to the 'real game' doing raids and stuff."

The story being a structure that all other content grows from is something unique to this game. And degrading that structure by allowing it to be bypassed without a price tag will damage that structure. They have said they may consider a new starting point at some point in the future but they will need to be careful they don't de-legitimize the importance of story as the root of the game and I imagine that factors into why they don't make it easier to skip.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Maybe you don't play a lot of MMO's but they also have stories with dungeons, trials contributing to that story. They also have ways to not have to do it multiple times on alt characters

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I don't play a lot of MMOs (only played Ragnarok Online, but that's a different kind).
How do they handle leveling alts then? Because, if you skip all cutscenes on your alt, I always assumed you could get to max level in no time, and the MSQ was really just free xp in this case...

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Herein lies the problem. "You let me skip all the MSQ up to this point. Why do I have to do it now? I don't care about the story. I just want to get to the 'real game' doing raids and stuff."

The story being a structure that all other content grows from is something unique to this game. And degrading that structure by allowing it to be bypassed without a price tag will damage that structure. They have said they may consider a new starting point at some point in the future but they will need to be careful they don't de-legitimize the importance of story as the root of the game and I imagine that factors into why they don't make it easier to skip.

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Story being a structure all content grows from is definitely not unique to FFXIV, that is how most games work. You won't be degrading any structure in anyway shape or form that doesn't exist already behind a bs pay wall. It will not way de-legitimize the importance of the story or root of the game, by giving players an OPTION to not partake if they choose. This would in no way affect anyone that does not choose this option so, it really does not matter. As far as why they would not be able to skip the current expansions story, is self explanatory, because it is current, same reason you cannot buy a skip for it.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I don't play a lot of MMOs (only played Ragnarok Online, but that's a different kind).
How do they handle leveling alts then? Because, if you skip all cutscenes on your alt, I always assumed you could get to max level in no time, and the MSQ was really just free xp in this case...

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WoW gives you options of selecting which expansion you want to play through when leveling 1-50. After 50 if you have completed shadowlands you can choose not to go through the story again, and just do dungeons, side quests, or world quests to level.

Lost ark allows you to pay gold to skip certain story segments that you have already completed on another character.

Besides the very beginning, I don't think I ever played msq for levels. That's what the daily duty roulette is for.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

WoW gives you options of selecting which expansion you want to play through when leveling 1-50. After 50 if you have completed shadowlands you can choose not to go through the story again, and just do dungeons, side quests, or world quests to level.

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Oh yeah, 18 years of great story across multiple expansions have been reduced to leveling on an island and going directly from there to BFA ... the best of the best of the best of expansions ever, with no context whatsoever about who these people you see in cutscenes are and why you should care. If that had been my initial 'experience' playing WoW 14 years ago, I'd have gone through that much of the 'free to play' (the island) and quit, rather than staying subscribed for 10 years.

@OP: Yyyes, this is a jrpg that happens to be an mmo, not world of warcraft's design of a collection of endgame raiding/grinding systems with a few recognizable characters stapled on every so often.

The game is in service to the story, not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

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Oh yeah, 18 years of great story across multiple expansions have been reduced to leveling on an island and going directly from there to BFA ... the best of the best of the best of expansions ever, with no context whatsoever about who these people you see in cutscenes are and why you should care. If that had been my initial 'experience' playing WoW 14 years ago, I'd have gone through that much of the 'free to play' (the island) and quit, rather than staying subscribed for 10 years.

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

@OP: Yyyes, this is a jrpg that happens to be an mmo, not world of warcraft's design of a collection of endgame raiding/grinding systems with a few recognizable characters stapled on every so often.

The game is in service to the story, not the other way around.

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I will leave it with this, if you want to force every new player to do the story, sure leave it how it is the game is going to eventually die at some point so why not sooner by gating new players and causing them to quit. Eventually you will get no more new players getting any where, max level content will start to suffer, and all there will really be to do once you hit max level is pray you have a house to play doll house, dress up, and RP/ERP. Which makes it slowly become a niche game for a niche group of people.

If you want it to live longer, somethings got to change to be more new player friendly, as again that is one of the most common things that cause players to quit is the long grind through the MSQ. How anyone feels about how good the MSQ it does not change that fact, that it is one of the greatest aspects of the game, while being the greatest deterrent at the same time. I don't see either of you coming up with any sort of solution just shutting down any feedback, or solution proposals by repeatedly saying this game is in service of the story, or saying crap like people should have known what they were getting into.

The really big problem with the story is simply that it grinds your sense of progression to a screeching halt, and simultaneously gates content so any time you spend on other activities only prolongs how long your progression is capped.

You can't really progress your main class because you have no access to higher level content until you've cleared each expansion and post quests.
You can't progress any alternate classes, because the glut of the quests you're stuck on are max level for where the game has capped your progress.


The MSQ just doesn't meaningfully interact with the reward systems of the game, instead it locks you out of the reward system of the game. It just says "No XP or loot for you until you've done all of this". Sure, you eventually hit the point where you're level 90 on every class you want to play and you have item level 600 gear. Maybe then XP and loot don't really matter anymore and you'll be glad for story quests that keep you entertained. But trapping you in a false endgame for two weeks every so often while there is still endless stuff for you to earn is completely obnoxious.