New summoner is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Its sad that it went from most complex of the DPS casters to its easier than RDM now.

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Is it really easier than RDM? I can't tell if that's hyperbole? I never played RDM. I was satisfied with SMN the last two expacs.

I'm dusting off the BLM right now. It's been awhile but it has the funs parts I remember but with more mobility then I recall.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Stop there.

Do you hear yourself. You're level 80. Pause a moment. Take a breath. Let's get to 90. I'm fairly certain you'll still have similar complaints - but lets see if your assessment of 'intent of mechanics'. Holds true for 90 as well.

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The only difference between 80 and 90 is the elemental Astral Flows and the summons changing from egis to the big ones. Slipstream/Mountain Buster/melee combo doesn't magically fix things.

Up to 84 now. Starting to get more strategic with the new quick Carby summons in things like the solo duties. Titan is the most annoying to use so far, because you have to pre place yourself in the mob pack to avoid wasting the big first attack.

I don't hate it. There's still a lot of thinking involved, just less punishment for stuff like lagging and missing the 8th wyrmwave or failing to keep the dots up because you had to dodge thus wasting a Fester. It won't be until I get into Extreme content before I can really see how the new controls work, but so far, I'm okay with what I've played with.

its a good base , but i need more tbh

we have elemental charges but would be cool to have 3-4 spells to choose from instead of 1 until 86 (2 but 1 is st the other AoE so there is no choice)

Well... lvl 80 summoner is really boring compare with the old one.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Stop there.

Do you hear yourself. You're level 80. Pause a moment. Take a breath. Let's get to 90. I'm fairly certain you'll still have similar complaints - but lets see if your assessment of 'intent of mechanics'. Holds true for 90 as well.

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Ok, 1, can't stop, won't stop.
2, if you want to have a discussion with me, don't talk down to me. I am very aware of what I said. SMN wasn't this 200IQ job, its resource hierarchy just wasn't immediately intuitive, and was further obfuscated by a questionable skill acquisition order. (all critiques I've held since 5.0) But, that being said, it was very easy to, after some time, go full autopilot on the rotation. (Seriously, after the egi assault change, the rotation was hella comfy)
3, being level 90, won't change my experiences on shadowbringers summoner.
And 4, I'm level 86, the forums haven't updated my character yet. I'm saving a full analysis of my experience on new smn when I get to 90, but, like my similar criticisms on shb smn, I shouldn't have to wait until max level for my core mechanics to feel complete.

Let me restate myself simply, my troubles with this revision isn't about "complexity" or "difficulty" of execution or the lack of ogcds, or the lack of dots, or the pet changes (ok, it's a little about that, but not directly), or really even about the spammy nature of it, and it's definitely not just because it's new (as I realized we were due for an overhaul the moment I understood ShB smn's mechanics).
It's just that it feels like there's something fundamental missing. Some mechanic that screams "Summoner" (like dualcast for redmage, or umbral ice/astral fire for blackmage).

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Is it really easier than RDM? I can't tell if that's hyperbole? I never played RDM. I was satisfied with SMN the last two expacs.

I'm dusting off the BLM right now. It's been awhile but it has the funs parts I remember but with more mobility then I recall.

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Definitely not hyperbole. I'm leveling both concurrently.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Is it really easier than RDM? I can't tell if that's hyperbole? I never played RDM. I was satisfied with SMN the last two expacs.

I'm dusting off the BLM right now. It's been awhile but it has the funs parts I remember but with more mobility then I recall.

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Yes. Summoner is now by far the easiest and most simple DPS job in the game.

So the OP could've shortened this down to "how dare Squeenix make SMN more useable by filthy casuals!!".

Let's face it, Summoner needed that overhaul. It was a convoluted mess of a rotation with an opener longer than most Broadway plays that required stellar ping and reflexes. The best part is that now that it's had this change, it now has the groundwork to become more complex over time while not needing a master's thesis to explain how to play it properly.

If you want something more complex, try a different job. Or a different game. Either way, I like how Summoner feels, and while it is possibly too simple right now, I'd rather have something too simple than too complicated any day. I think most players would too, and that shouldn't be seen as a bad thing since it's easier for players to make easy things more challenging than for devs to make challenging things easier.

There was no reason for Summoner to be as convoluted as it was. I played SMN as my main job during Shadowbringers and I really prefer how it plays so far in Endwalker.