Monk Positionals 6.0

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

Just because nearly all the tanks play very similarly doesn't mean you have to celebrate the same happening to melee DPS.

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Granted I don't have much experience on the others outside of leveling them.
But imo it's primarily DRK and WAR that feel similar in terms of how rotation goes at least.
I get it when talking about tools, but GNB at least which I've played the most feels pretty different imo.

PLD is very on rails but I think it feels different too.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Granted I don't have much experience on the others outside of leveling them.
But imo it's primarily DRK and WAR that feel similar in terms of how rotation goes at least.
I get it when talking about tools, but GNB at least which I've played the most feels pretty different imo.

PLD is very on rails but I think it feels different too.

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Honestly, PLD rotates more differently from DRK than RPR does from DRK or NIN.

Though I guess MNK is at least unique in how barebone it is?

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Those 20-potency-differed positionals mattered nothing to those happy to do only half, or at most two-thirds, their potential damage. But they did allow for far more apm and engagement for those who cared to bother with them

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Do people here usually try to come across all knowing, with the jargon and acronyms, but actually know absolutely nothing (no offense)

Because im trying to wrap my head around how more positionals equates to higher apm... lmfao i cant with this forum sometimes!

I shuffle strafe on my MCH, do it like 100s of times a fight, so i guess that's mad high apm boiii.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

I shuffle strafe on my MCH, do it like 100s of times a fight, so i guess that's mad high apm boiii.

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Ah, this explains so much about why you struggled with positionals.

Well, it's a matter of feel more than anything. As I've mentioned earlier, the extra step of shimmying those positionals in gave an element of tactile feedback to the class that really helped to give weight to what is otherwise a simpler rotation. It works in a roundabout way, since you do the positional preemptively, but it's a step that flicks a switch in my head that says 'button pressed, thing done, send the good feeling juices.' Throwing in a bit of extra speed helps to make up for the lost occupation of the positionals, but it does not replicate the sense of feedback.

I don't claim to be a remotely good or experienced MNK player. I only dabbled a bit in Heavensward, as tanking was my main thing back then, and messed around near the end of Shadowbringers in preparation for Endwalker. I probably would have played the class more consistently over SMN as my chosen DPS if the class didn't get as buggered as it did in Stormblood (funny enough, I'm not a fan of the SMN changes in Endwalker, so I'm done with that too). I'd like to get involved in higher end content, but I wouldn't consider myself a higher end player by any stretch of the imagination. I can put up decent numbers in some content, but I've never really gotten the opportunity to get a proper static going to consistently challenge the high end content (life happens, you know?). However, I do enjoy classes where I can see myself improve and develop my skills better. Having that ability to grow and appreciate depth and nuance is important to me as a player, even if it means only knowing that my number has gotten a little bit higher over time. Ultimately though, I also just need that switch to flip in my head that the loss of positionals kind of takes away for me on MNK.

What I'm getting at is that you don't have to be a top tier sweatlord raider to appreciate an extra measure of depth in a playstyle. Even at a casual level, acquiring even a minor sense of mastery feels good. It's not like FFXIV is a punishing game either, a little bit of a hump in the road to optimize yourself isn't the end of the world.

...I dunno, maybe I'll try to take on SAM for my preferred DPS. Never touched it before, but it seems people like that one's current state, mostly.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Well, it's a matter of feel more than anything.

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It's a matter of engagement I'd say.
Positionals are more engaging than just pressing 1 2 3 because they make you move and keep you on your toes.
And in Savage you also need to work around it and adapt it's part of the fun and what makes the gameplay engaging.

This seems to be lost on some people and I think it's a general attitude some people have in games where they don't want to try, they treat games more like theme-parks.
Which is fine I guess, but perhaps not so relevant or a good idea to balance the game around outside of story mode.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why people complaining don't just... move? There's nothing to stop you from treating the abilities like their positionals were never removed. Like I said in an earlier reply, I'm going to be moving around anyway thanks to muscle memory. I expect the same will hold true for most of you, so I don't know why this needed a thread or even calls for the change to be reverted. This is just such a strange thing to complain about when it's a problem you can solve by continuing your pre-patch behavior. The removal of oGCDs and the continued uselessness of of SSS and Anatman seem like much bigger issues to me.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why people complaining don't just... move? There's nothing to stop you from treating the abilities like their positionals were never removed. Like I said in an earlier reply, I'm going to be moving around anyway thanks to muscle memory. I expect the same will hold true for most of you, so I don't know why this needed a thread or even calls for the change to be reverted. This is just such a strange thing to complain about when it's a problem you can solve by continuing your pre-patch behavior. The removal of oGCDs and the continued uselessness of of SSS and Anatman seem like much bigger issues to me.

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"So, this game no longer gives any reason to dodge, you say?"

"Yeah, they've increased the hurtbox sizes to the point that the only way to dodge is to sprint away with an 8-ft headstart. At best it's a thing once in a while on specific fights and only if the enemy frequently changing angle at the worst possible moments."

"And you say that decreases your enjoyment?"

"Well, yeah, since I used to have a good reason to do the things I enjoyed doing, and they synergized with the rest of the kit."

"But, you could just pretend that dodging still works? Wouldn't that be just as satisfying? You're still hitting the same buttons."

"..."

...I'm honestly not even sure whether you'll initially think this anecdote conveys agreement or its intended sarcasm.

Pretend mechanics doesn't matter and it's not how game design works.
Just on a psychological level too it's not how people work, things need to feel like they matter.

Not to mention that part of it is minimizing movement, just like how BLM does.
It's part of the gameplay and what makes it interesting and engaging.
If they made all BLM casts insta casts and you told them to '' just stand still and pretend '', I mean you don't see how absurd that is?

Using Riddle of Earth and True North correctly and maximizing your movement is part of the fun, and it was real.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Pretend mechanics doesn't matter and it's not how game design works.
Just on a psychological level too it's not how people work, things need to feel like they matter.

Not to mention that part of it is minimizing movement, just like how BLM does.
It's part of the gameplay and what makes it interesting and engaging.
If they made all BLM casts insta casts and you told them to '' just stand still and pretend '', I mean you don't see how absurd that is?

Using Riddle of Earth and True North correctly and maximizing your movement is part of the fun, and it was real.

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Better watch out, someone who boosted monk might hop in to tell you about how much APM they get out of (insert ranged physical job here) as if it's the very same thing as playing monk optimally prior to Endwalker.