SE needs to do more to help bad players

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

While this is true, this is assuming that all players are at the minimum item level for the encounter. Now when you're below the minimum item level (quite normal for statics btw and Savage raids), that healer DPS can indeed make the difference between a clear or no clear.

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All encounters are balanced around the minimum iLevel as well. Hence better gear making it easier and easier as more people get the better gear. If you're below the minimum you can't even enter, so uh... Hmm...

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

All encounters are balanced around the minimum iLevel as well. Hence better gear making it easier and easier as more people get the better gear. If you're below the minimum you can't even enter, so uh... Hmm...

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Incorrect. If you're a full premade, you can enter below minimum item level. Now if you're pulling even one random from DF then yes you must all meet the minimum itemlevel. Also, my phrasing said that the encounter is balanced around everyone at minimum item level (the "this is assuming that all players are at the minimum item level for the counter" part). But trust me, full premades can enter below minimum itemlevel for dungeons and trials. On the duty finder window, for most duties it'll say something like "Role and item level restrictions are lifted for premade parties".

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean it is true, I rather healers focus on healing even if it makes a dungeon longer. I rather someone play with a bad playstyle and enjoy the game, than other wise.

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What about when they focus on standing still doing nothing?

The narrowing of the skill gap in this game would ultimately involve a redesign that I'm sure long term players won't want.

Yes, this game could use something like the Proving Grounds which would help but not solve the problem.

World of WarCraft and Elder Scrolls Online seem to have a wider pool of skill because they have a much lower skill floor than this game but a much higher skill ceiling.

Rotations in those two games are nowhere near as complicated as the rotations here but the encounters are much harder in design as a trade off. So players from ESO or WoW are not used to having to manage a very long, very strict rotation which means a lot of time spent looking at hot bars (and dying to mechanics) or a lot of time watching mechanics and ignoring hotbars (lowering dps). That's my experience, anyway.


Personally I do prefer easier rotations and tougher encounters but I wouldn't wish that sort of change for this game when so many people like the game how it is.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Says the guy with "♥ It's not right, but it's okay. ♥" in his signature. If it's not EX/Savage/Ultimate it's not going to matter. You have an hour to complete a dungeon, you knew the risks when you clicked confirm.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean it is true, I rather healers focus on healing even if it makes a dungeon longer. I rather someone play with a bad playstyle and enjoy the game, than other wise.

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Again, glad to see people are promoting healers to AFK inbetween heals when the content demands for bare minimum healing to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Wait, you talk about normal and say that is a tight DPS check? Oh my...

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Sigh. This is the last time I'm going to attempt communication with you.

It is not, objectively, a tight check, I overstated it a bit and later corrected myself. But it is definitely fallible, unlike most previous normal trials, and as I said, the amount of trouble I've seen people in my daily roulettes have with it give me the impression that Titania Normal was supposed to be an attempt by SE to prompt people to wake up, self-reflect and work on their damage output. However, I don't think it worked. Because the game so rarely challenges players in the course of MSQ progression, many of them seem to be coming into a lvl 73 trial doing subpar damage, or in case of many healers I've seen, 0 damage, absolute 0, not even a dot, not even a book smack. It astonishes me that people are allowed to get this far into the game performing so poorly and would rather disband after failing at this trial than attempt to do better at it.

In other words, if I'm somehow still not clear: Titania Normal is not especially challenging, but my experience shows that a lot of people I randomly run into in duty finder are excessively challenged by it, and I cannot quite understand why. The game prior to that offers 70 levels worth of self-improvement tools which in theory should have been enough to prepare players coming into Shadowbringers to deal with basic mechanics and perform basic rotations required to pass a dps check. I don't know what more the game can do to help them short of either forcing them to beat a Stone, Sky, Sea dummy at certain thresholds, or allowing other players more freedom to advise underperforming players without violating the TOS in one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Incorrect. If you're a full premade, you can enter below minimum item level. Now if you're pulling even one random from DF then yes you must all meet the minimum itemlevel. Also, my phrasing said that the encounter is balanced around everyone at minimum item level (the "this is assuming that all players are at the minimum item level for the counter" part). But trust me, full premades can enter below minimum itemlevel for dungeons and trials. On the duty finder window, for most duties it'll say something like "Role and item level restrictions are lifted for premade parties".

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While true, doesn't change that's how the instance is balanced though -_^ If you wish to enter below the recommended ilevel, by all means. But I'm not even sure if that's possible due to ease of access to gear lol.

So, doesn't help the argument of healers going pew pew and gear being low, since balanced around no pew pew and a certain ilevel. So again, if people are hitting enrage, it's based on lack of DPS from DPS, "Standing in Fire", and lack of awareness then.

Now that I have finished reading this, got a few more interesting thoughts ti add.

Keep seeing discussion on if healers are required to DPS.

First, I need to say I disagree with telling people the "Always Be Casting" saying first, and prefer "Always Be Evaluating". ABE leads to and allows for ABC, as it takes knowing the content, your current available resources, and what resources you will need soon to best put ABC into effect.

For healer requirements, it is pretty simple, as only one. Keep people alive to the best of your ability. The priorities is where it gets complicated.
The first priority is always going to be the tanks and healers. Second priority is anyone else that can heal or raise in a pinch. Last is everyone else.

While doing damage is no where in there, a good healer knows that it is one of many tools they can use to accomplish the above role requirements, as the faster the encounter ends the less healing is needed.

But to all of the people complaining about 0 or low dps healers, you might want to double check the people's whos dps the content is actually balanced around being at specific points first before pointing fingers at the role that is not included in that balance equation if not clearing. As there is always the possibility that the healer is not getting enough freedom with their resources to dps.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Again, glad to see people are promoting healers to AFK inbetween heals when the content demands for bare minimum healing to begin with.

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You saying I'm promoting anything is your own narrative. I'm just stating an actual gameplay fact.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

What about when they focus on standing still doing nothing?

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I mean if that is how they enjoy the game I'm not going to judge?

When I picked convenience of the game making my own group. I lost the right to complain about other peoples play style be I like it or not. That is how I feel about bad groups I get.