The State of the Ascians (Assume Spoilers as of TODAY)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Oh I agree, it's all but certain Themis is Elidibus, as he's really the only candidate for the role (he wears a white robe, is in his late teens, and even appears to share the same voice actor), and that there is really no one else in Elpis who even remotely resembles him. But I guess we have to wait for SE to confirm that.

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Now we just need to know When it is =P

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Oh I agree, it's all but certain Themis is Elidibus, as he's really the only candidate for the role (he wears a white robe, is in his late teens, and even appears to share the same voice actor), and that there is really no one else in Elpis who even remotely resembles him. But I guess we have to wait for SE to confirm that.

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I meant more timing-wise, indicating that Themis is already in the seat of Elidibus prior to our trip to Elpis, rather than only taking up the position later during the Final Days, as Baxcel suggested.

That said, I think there is a small but non-zero chance that they are going to do an extra loop-the-loop of time shenanigans and have Pandaemonium actually happen earlier than the rest of the Elpis storyline, mainly because there's a deliberate talking point during MSQ at the teleporter we later learn goes to Pandaemonium, where Emet observes that it seems neglected and wonders if it is out of use. It could just be that people don't go in or out that way much, or it's deliberately made to look like it doesn't work to discourage people – though in an earlier conversation Venat hints that there's a dangerous facility connected to that island so it's not exactly a secret. More strange pieces in the puzzle.

Of course, the simpler explanation is that it is post-Elpis as we experience it, and Themis is already Elidibus but undercover for some reason.

I figure when in doubt always try to go for the simpler easier answer for that. Too many complications is just a headache waiting to happen. Doubly so since Time travel is added into the mix. Also makes more sense atleast to me if it happens after Elpis. Reason being is if you go back into Pandaemonia and speak to Themis, he states that he has gotten in touch with Azem and that they said they had the utmost faith is us handling things.

I'm figuring that word got to them about us and just decides to keep rolling with it and saying they sent us.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I figure when in doubt always try to go for the simpler easier answer for that. Too many complications is just a headache waiting to happen. Doubly so since Time travel is added into the mix. Also makes more sense atleast to me if it happens after Elpis.

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Oh, definitely I prefer the straightforward answer. I just can't rule the other interpretation out as impossible from what we currently know.

I will point out that we have absolutely no concept of the passage of time between when we went to Elpis and when the End of Days happened, nor do we really know what Ancients would consider 'a long time' or how long their lifespans were. Theoretically there could've been plenty of time between those two events for Themis to become Elidibus, and to have become relatively settled into his role.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I will point out that we have absolutely no concept of the passage of time between when we went to Elpis and when the End of Days happened, nor do we really know what Ancients would consider 'a long time' or how long their lifespans were. Theoretically there could've been plenty of time between those two events for Themis to become Elidibus, and to have become relatively settled into his role.

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This would only be true if our time with Themis took place before our time with Hyth, Hades, and Venat, not after. The reason is because during our initial trip, Hyth told Venat about Azem's antics with Ifrita and the volcano—and while those particular events were happening, Themis was already Elidibus (assuming Themis is Elidibus).

Things are a bit easier to understand if they run on "San Dimas Time"—the idea that time is always moving forward, so you can't use time travel willy-nilly to keep taking swings at the same set of events. Otherwise there'd be no reason not to abuse time travel to, say, give yourself a helping hand or three/seven/twenty-three to deal with Hermes and Meteion/Pandaemonium/I hope to God we don't use time travel at all in the 24-man raid questline.

As an aside, I should probably watch Bill & Ted at some point.

Honestly from how it went down after we came back from elpis it did look like that time was still moving forward. Due to the fact that when we left it was just the Thavnair area under the final days and when we come back Garlemald is being affected.

And if you haven't watched Bill and Ted's... any of them definitely do so they're most excellent.... lol

Themis also tells at least us before we meet Eric that they were supposed to investigate it with Azem before Azem going "Oh wait I uh can't, buddy. I'll just cover for you while you ah wait for the help that comes via a shooting star." Then dances around the whole convocation subject while saying he's just an investigator that works with the convocation and if a member were to have come that they'd have to start the self destruct sequence if they found out all the nasties had over run the facility. I think it's happening after our 1st time. It definitely isn't happening during cause it'd be strange for Emet and Hythlodaeus not to notice Elidibus was there. As it seemed like he had been waiting for a little while before we almost knocked him out by landing on him.

Pretty sure azem just applied some self logic after being told most likely by venat that if he/she put the stone somewhere by our very nature we'd find it and solve the problem :P if there a problem then azem reincarnated or original will 100 % sure stumble across it we're like magnet for heroic stuff

Per live letter, Altima and Deudalaphon "killed" by Gaius but potentially may still be out there.


I think the more interesting thing is that the Unsundered are unsundered because Venat purposefully made a hole in her Sundering Emet-Selch could notice and escape through and he took Lahabrea and Elidibus.