As an FFXI player, thank you for Limited Jobs and BLU SE

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

easy: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...8f3d8978271a55

The Devs have said it's an exploit, an exploit that the Devs won't punish you for (because it's their fault and will take a while to fix), but an exploit nontheless. Do your research before arguing semantics

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Not the part I was talking about.

I am specifically talking about the fact it was grouped in with AFK Blue Mages. The Job changing thing is neither here nor there because technically speaking I also SAID that you get XP changing hitting mobs on a visual due to how the server tick worked WITHOUT CHANGING JOBS (are they cheating too?). So before you cut out parts of my post to try to "Win" maybe understand that I'm talking about the context of how being AFK is an exploit? So even if he meant that was two separate things, and it was a "Carry" it was really petty to even complain about how people were getting XP quickly in a scenario designed for it - that has 0 impact on your gameplay unless you're fighting over the same mobs. Not to mention really, we're worried about people being AFK in the overworld now? If you're in that party, and don't like it, go and form another one.

The job change has been around way before Blue Mages were a thing. It is only NOW a "problem" because people were complaining so much to GMs and telling people they were gonna get banned that the devs HAD to address it to stop all the complaining in general. "Yes it's an exploit, and no we're not gonna punish players for using it" Basically putting two groups of kids in their respective corners to sit down and be quiet.

tl;dr Server tick has long been used in ways to exploit the game before people calling it the XP exploit. Which is ironic because the server tick is there to begin with to prevent certain types of cheating in the game.

XI and XIV are 2 vastly different games with their main similarity being FINAL FANTASY.

People didn't play XI to speed through things, just like people don't play XIV to wait on everything (tho waiting on the DF as a DPS...)

IX was an "original" MMO. I am not saying it was the first, but it was an Early MMO. A lot of things have changed since 2002. We are now in an Era where its mostly about instant gratification, and patience is a lost art. I am Not saying that i necessarily want to wait 6 hours to do something, but not getting something in 10 minutes is just as bad.

FFXI did a lot of things right, and they changed over the last 15 years. They boosted EXP, they added trusts, in general they made a lot of general fixes to simplify the game.

Thats also a Huge difference. FFXI was Not a simple game. But its also not for everyone. If you wanted to delve into every aspect of the game, to get the best numbers you needed to pay attention to detail, and honestly, when you achieved that, you felt accomplished. It took me years to get my first job to 75 back when that was the cap, but when i finally got there, it felt like finishing a marathon.

In XIV when the cap was 50, i had all jobs at 50, and it just felt like a grind fest. Yes, it was faster, but at the same time it was felt like "now what"

Now yes, if a game like XI were released now, there would not be much buy in, people don't want to spend the kind of time they used to on games, not that i blame them at all, i don't have the same amount of time i did. But there were several aspects of XI that i and many others Really enjoyed.

Out of all of the jobs, none Really felt like each others play style. If you played Whm, vs Rdm, at varying points, yes, you were Haste/refresh cycle slaves, but you could do so many different things. And this is where the battle speed being slower actually Helped.

In XIV you cycle buttons, it feels stagnant, 1, 2, 3, repeat. Over and over, 2-3 times per monster. Fighting slimes, 1, 2, 3, fighting crabs, 1, 2, 3, you get the idea. In XI it was varied. Fighting a fire elemental, Freeze 2 or Blizzaja, fighting a coeurl, Stoneja etc.

Comparing the 2 games is talking apples and potatoes. its 2 different worlds with just similar references.

Can't blame people for wanting to see some things carry on, while others would hate it if they did.

Eureka was a sad attempt to replicate SOME aspects of 11. They screwed up the elements, since jobs don't get elemental diversity, they didn't touch on damage types.They literally took the monsters from outside and inflicted a Harsher death penalty than XI ever had. Complain about having to "find a party" like in XI, way different. If you choose to enter the zone, you are there for that reason. Along with everyone else in the zone, shout for a minute or 2 and bingo, party. Its not like searching the people online to see who is in level range, on said job, wanting to party at a given time on XI.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Using niche abilities to cheese mechanics to solo a fight is the fun in it. Even if the process might sound unexciting. Soloing T13 as a level 70 DRK early in Stormblood involved sitting in Grit and spamming Souleater combo to self-heal all day. Isn't exciting when you just hear about it, but it "is" exciting when you're doing it yourself with all the other nuances the fight involved.

The problem with BLU though is for it to solo anything you take 400 years. Enrages and instance time-outs are more of a concern than the mechanics.

The spells as they are currently don't work together fluidly (they do work nicely though). Off GCDs that have casts are too awkward. I could go all day to be honest and disect the spells one by one, but I digress.

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I'm just saying that 'It is soloing coil' is misleading, because I'm fairly certain in any other Coil fight other than T2, potentially T4, and T3, the Blue Mage is gonna die no matter what you do.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Not the part I was talking about.

I am specifically talking about the fact it was grouped in with AFK Blue Mages. The Job changing thing is neither here nor there because technically speaking I also SAID that you get XP changing hitting mobs on a visual due to how the server tick worked WITHOUT CHANGING JOBS (are they cheating too?). So before you cut out parts of my post to try to "Win" maybe understand that I'm talking about the context of how being AFK is an exploit? So even if he meant that was two separate things, and it was a "Carry" it was really petty to even complain about how people were getting XP quickly in a scenario designed for it - that has 0 impact on your gameplay unless you're fighting over the same mobs. Not to mention really, we're worried about people being AFK in the overworld now? If you're in that party, and don't like it, go and form another one.

The job change has been around way before Blue Mages were a thing. It is only NOW a "problem" because people were complaining so much to GMs and telling people they were gonna get banned that the devs HAD to address it to stop all the complaining in general. "Yes it's an exploit, and no we're not gonna punish players for using it" Basically putting two groups of kids in their respective corners to sit down and be quiet.

tl;dr Server tick has long been used in ways to exploit the game before people calling it the XP exploit. Which is ironic because the server tick is there to begin with to prevent certain types of cheating in the game.

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Yes, they are 3 separate points in my statement. For whatever reason you're deciding to group them together and take the whole thing out of context. I never said being AFK was an exploit. If you're going to say "let's have well reasoned arguments please" at least have the reading comprehension to participate.

It does occur to me that the EXP exploit is not new, given it's nature it's likely been around as long as the game has been around. BLU just made it more visible to the community and devs. So, fair enough.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Yes, they are 3 separate points in my statement. For whatever reason you're deciding to group them together and take the whole thing out of context. I never said being AFK was an exploit. If you're going to say "let's have well reasoned arguments please" at least have the reading comprehension to participate.

It does occur to me that the EXP exploit is not new, given it's nature it's likely been around as long as the game has been around. BLU just made it more visible to the community and devs. So, fair enough.

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Either way, your Blue Mage about being AFK, is still not even anything but being petty about away time for a class that was meant to be quickly leveled. Exploit or not. It wasn't a reasonable argument. It was nitpicking and exaggerating the whole situation of it being a problem.

The XP exploit goes hand and hand with just exploiting server ticks in general. It's not just about XP, which is what I was pointing out. To give you another example - Ifrit EX has the debuff that affects a healer in the party. The mechanic was to force a healer swap. The debuff was obviously meant for the healer to stay out the entire time the debuff is in effect. However, you don't have to. The reason is because the effect of the debuff isn't constant, it pulses every server tick. So you can actually come in earlier than the debuff actually wears off.

Now don't get me wrong, there was an effect that the job change thing DID affect on the playerbase negatively. That was that Blue Mage couldn't exactly 1 shot Overworld mobs as effectively and players that went around 1 shotting mobs before the other player tagged them robbed them of their Experience points. However, if you did tag said mob before it was killed you still got experience from it. So both people were still benefiting from it.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Either way, your Blue Mage about being AFK, is still not even anything but being petty about away time for a class that was meant to be quickly leveled. Exploit or not. It wasn't a reasonable argument. It was nitpicking and exaggerating the whole situation of it being a problem.

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You're still not getting it. Being AFK while 1 or 2 level 70s kill 100+ primals for you has nothing to do with BLU being a job meant to level up quickly.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

You're still not getting it. Being AFK while 1 or 2 level 70s kill 100+ primals for you has nothing to do with BLU being a job meant to level up quickly.

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I get you're being overly petty about a class that has no impact on your game play? It's a class that obviously can obviously go into preformed parties with other players and they can decide on doing whatever the hell they want, including going AFK. If the group is NOT okay with them, they get the boot.

So what is it I'm not getting, is it really impacting you?

Did you not win the carnivale because someone else got a primal skill?

You can't DF with a Blue Mage, it was meant for preformed parties, and they can play however they want so long as they agree with it and doesn't violate SE's TOS.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I get you're being overly petty about a class that has no impact on your game play? It's a class that obviously can obviously go into preformed parties with other players and they can decide on doing whatever the hell they want, including going AFK. If the group is NOT okay with them, they get the boot.

So what is it I'm not getting, is it really impacting you?

Did you not win the carnivale because someone else got a primal skill?

You can't DF with a Blue Mage, it was meant for preformed parties, and they can play however they want so long as they agree with it and doesn't violate SE's TOS.

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WTF are you going on about. I went from stating what I see is flawed with the system/job to repeatedly attempting to clarify my points because you're apparently unable to comprehend them. If you REALLY want me to be petty.. Please continue.

I'm asking you the same thing? It's not really flawed because people go AFK. So what are you talking about?
There is nothing in there that you decided to refute me with that has any impact on your gameplay.

What's the difference between an AFK blue mage, and an AFK player in general in a preformed party?

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

What's the difference between an AFK blue mage, and an AFK player in general in a preformed party?

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The AFK player, in general, returns at some point to actually participate in content.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

There is nothing in there that you decided to refute me with that has any impact on your gameplay.

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Breaking news. It doesn't need to affect my gameplay in order for me to see and discuss the flaws in it's design.