Possible AST nerf

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

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If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

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It was connected to bringing SCH back to it's old self. You compared to two spells, one that was buffed, and another that got a nerf. And yes, you're right, MP isn't an issue on any of them if we look into 8 man content. There, SCH has no issues. None of them do. They all perform well and I've seen no difference in performance.

Either way if AST gets punched I'd probably still play it. I mained it in 3.0 I know how playing a bad job feels and how to make it work (And I did make ast work then.) There is, however, a very important piece of information that's likely not gone through anyone's head.

Remember when SCH had better shields, and AST noct was considered worthless? I remember that. Is the issue that AST's shields are bigger than SCH's unless they crit? If so, won't making the shields from AST lower than SCH's no matter what just make it worthless again? We don't get a crit multiplier on the shield. If our shield's were a 250 potency, we'd be a laughing stock again, and just go back to double regen. SCH's were going for crit anyways last I checked, so they would be more often to get that huge shield boost. What likely happened in SE's thoughts was that since AST shields don't get the multiplier, they have to naturally be bigger than SCH's, or nobody would ever go Noct astrologian like before.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Nope, just misunderstood you, but hey keep being rude.

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I have a hard time believing that was an accident when you had to omit the sentence before, and the sentences after to try to make that point. This is why I said it does look like you had to selectively ignore sentences for that quote.

Even if it was some sort of 'accident', I'll stand by my statement: Stop taking things out of its context.

If you find either of these things rude, that's your problem, and maybe you should avoid doing something that would warrant a somewhat hostile response.

Wall street journal did it to pewdiepie, and wrongfully labeled him.
CNN does it in their lies of omission.
Don't do it to me to misrepresent my point regardless if it was accidental, or intentional, and I won't seem as hostile. I find it incredibly rude to do that. You did it twice.

Also you're seriously whining about my passive aggression, I don't care.
I get tired of repeating myself, and pointing out the obvious to people time and time again, such as that fairy comment, and later misrepresenting my point.
If you can't take a comment that's several steps away from outright insulting you, that's your problem. You're going to run into several times worse.

Toughen up, or read past it, like how I ignored every bit of your comments of projection; I read them, and none of it was important to me, and a waste of time and space to address any of it. Yet my passive aggression bugs you this much?

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

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You are comparing things that you feel backup your argument. Jijifi points out the real issues being discussed. All that has ever been brought up over and over are as Jijifi says. Hell, look through the first 2 pages, find me something that says anything about whm. The argument is here, so, it's being addressed. The healer forums don't show it. They show significant problems with sch that are nothing like you portray. Yes, they call for minor tweaks to what you stated, but the real problem is here. SCH's never had to worry about mp pre SB. SCH's had faerie's that could make up a good portion of healing without issue pre SB.

The scariest part of all of this is, I fear that if they don't fix the problem with these healers we will never see the
light of day of another one. They are just struggling so much to make the 3 healers
in the same light. I just can't take the pingpong effect of the healers being in the highs and lows.
They need to fix them within these next two years so we can
have hopes of another healer. :/ AST was an absolute nightmare and it took the entire expansion to fix.
I was not surprised when we didn't get a healer this time because of how much time it
took to place AST somewhere...I hope they fix this sooner than later.
Just pray SCH will find it's place again sooner.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

The scariest part of all of this is, I fear that if they don't fix the problem with these healers we will never see the
light of day of another one. They are just struggling so much to make the 3 healers
in the same light. I just can't take the pingpong effect of the healers being in the highs and lows.
They need to fix them within these next to years so we can
have hopes of another healer. :/ AST was an absolute nightmare and it took the entire expansion to fix.
Just pray that SCH will find it's place again sooner.

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Let's hope so, Jyrbril. SCH was my favorite before. I'm looking forward to it being my favorite again. :)

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

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I actually do agree with most of what you've said, but I do question what that costs to the other healers.

AST can perform both roles, and as a hybrid is outclassing both who should be specialising in those roles. Do we then think it's fair for them to stay like that, along with their card buffs, just for the sake of their sects remaining relevant?

SCH is not going to be reverted to it's previous 3.x self. They removed too many abilities, and changed the entire playstyle of the job. One could argue that N.Sect was trash because SCH itself was perfect back then, but that won't be the case. (Unless they decide to give all our DoTs back, our mitigation in Virus and give the Faerie a significant buff.) With that being said, a shield being slightly weaker, but instant cast, is still powerful and doesn't then outclass the job that is meant to be known for shielding. And once again, they still bring card buffs, so it would not be anywhere near as bad as N.AST was pre 3.4.

AST is a mess to balance, they really should have removed one sect and added an opposite healer to balance, but they did not. So we either have this problem where AST can be stronger in every aspect, or we can let them shine with their buffs, tone down some of thier healing kit and give WHM/SCH their power back. Personally I'd rather see all three healers at the same level. Rght now we can all agree that WHM/SCH would be a viable but extremely suboptimal comp.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

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They are not a hybrid. They are one or the other. SCH is much more of a hybrid given that they can still have a regen going at times and AST is full on dam shield or no. The card buffs are random. It's a tradeoff. Lump them all together, and hell yes, I'll have another serving of AST please! We are comparing random 15 sec to 30 sec buffs. They are controlled by the rng. You can compare AST regen to the others, but you can't compare it with the damage shields at the same time. That is pure fantasy that even SE can't illustrate properly. Even you are making the argument for the issues at hand now, Kabzy. I have still played all healers, even though it was pre 4.0. I've played whm to 50, (hate it), sch to 60, and ast to 70. You have to see, nerfing all classes just makes all of them weak. If one is performing right, you can't bring it down to match the others. You only end up addressing the same issue all over again.

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Originally Posted by Sakei

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For the billionth time, it's not about AST performing 'right'. All healers are viable, but AST is just leagues ahead of the other two. At least Jijifli brought up some valid points, you're just continually failing to see the strength the job has right now. You can't always solve things by buffing, because then the healer role itself will be unbalanced relative to the content.

I'll clarify again, I don't think AST needs a lot of nerfs, or even any significant ones. I expect a mix of buffs to the others and slight nerfs will achieve balance. But keeping AST as it is now is simply ridiculous. When the entire game is focused around DPS, having such utlity as the Balance is something the other healers simply cannot match. And it may be gated by RNG, but get real. It's not that difficult to fish for, and the first one is always guaranteed.

Edit: Also I just went full douchebag mode and checked out your fflogs. You don't even exist there and Jiji doesn't have anything recorded. So as someone who actually has all three healers to 70 and can see the power gap between them, I'm not going to waste my time debating with you two. Lets just see what SE decide to do in a few hours. :D

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

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All you said with that is that you are envious of AST. Yes, it is that difficult to fish for when it's completely random. I say again, you never balance by dragging another class down to one you consider to be broken. Yes, I know you claim the opposite but your statements do not back it up. You always end up overnerfing and readjusting. I've seen it a million times. I've played mmo's since 1999. It's never gone otherwise. I stand corrected, once EQ1 corrected an issue that let bards charm the god of the plane of fear. That may go down in history as the only beneficial nerf ever in the history of gaming.