How many people have multiple houses?

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

They were tired of the bullshit from whiny people who flooded the server, so they wrote a response. They don't have to argue or justify. They own the plots ( insofar as anyone can own anything on SE's servers ) and they aren't going to be forced out of them by anything short of rule changes or dev intervention. They don't have to benefit anyone, and this isn't an exploit. If they found a way to break a rule or a basic system function? That would be an exploit. This was just people playing the game how they wanted to.

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They own nothing. Square-Enix are the actual intellectual owners of the game and every character in said game. They reserve the right to simply do what they want. The response the author wrote and how they worded it only paints them as the snotty people they are. But then I think Risu here may have nailed it here with S-E's own terms of service.

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Originally Posted by Risu0042

"Terms of Service 3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players"
It looks like they are disrupting the experience of a lot of other players hoarding a limited commodity.

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Sad thing is the disruption comes with the exploit and oversight from Square Enix - therefore it DOES fall onto Square Enix to fix this mess that THEY created. They (Being S-E) have the right AND the obligation to correct this and fix the quality of life for players who are left out not being able to enjoy certain mechanics that are offered because several greedy people (of all kinds!) exploited that mistake. Butter it up all you want, Venjamin, but hard work or not, their greed is no different from others who exploit the system for their own gains.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

They own nothing. Square-Enix are the actual intellectual owners of the game and every character in said game. They reserve the right to simply do what they want. The response the author wrote and how they worded it only paints them as the snotty people they are. But then I think Risu here may have nailed it here with S-E's own terms of service.

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Insofar as anyone can own anything on SE's servers. Pay attention or don't quote me. They paid for the plots, and unless SE changes the way it works, within the confines of the game, they 'own' those plots. Yes, SE owns everything. Within the context of plot ownership, it's theirs. Responding defensively to abuse isn't 'snotty.' They were pissed because people are being dicks. They're allowed to retaliate to abuse.

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Sad thing is the disruption comes with the exploit and oversight from Square Enix - therefore it DOES fall onto Square Enix to fix this mess that THEY created. They (Being S-E) have the right AND the obligation to correct this and fix the quality of life for players who are left out not being able to enjoy certain mechanics that are offered because several greedy people (of all kinds!) exploited that mistake. Butter it up all you want, Venjamin, but hard work or not, their greed is no different from others who exploit the system for their own gains.

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Reread ToS 3.2: "You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers." This reads as specific to TECHNICAL disruptions, i.e., DDoSing a player. By YOUR ridiculous aspersion, anyone that owns a single house, whether it's an FC house or personal, is 'interfering with the game experience of other players.' Because, gasp, they're taking up this 'limited commodity'. This is designed to be outside the context of gameplay, otherwise crafters should HAVE to craft for free because to do otherwise is 'interfering with the game experience.'

Again, it's not an exploit. Words have meanings, Maiko. I agree that SE has the right to change the circumstances, but they have NO obligation to bend to your whims. Much like missing out on the above point, they own everything. They can ban anyone for any reason - or no reason - including you. SE should fix this, but the ONLY WAY to fix this is by making all housing instanced. Adjusting it to 1 per account won't fix the overall issue.

Their 'greed' isn't greed. It's just how they play the game. It's not their fault other players were lazy or chose not to come to the server.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

Reread ToS 3.2: "You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers." This reads as specific to TECHNICAL disruptions, i.e., DDoSing a player.

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That is most certainly not what it means. It means any disruptions INCLUDING those technical ones that do not directly influence players one on one, but instead is targeted specifically at SE's hardware. It does not restrict it to technical ones only.

This is in fact the same part of the TOS referenced when we got a confirmation that house flipping was against TOS. That line is there because SE cannot outline every possible situation that could be seen as detrimental to the game.

However it's up to SE's interpretation. Clearly they do not see house hoarding as disruptive to the game experience of other players.

Aslo I'm going to repeat myself for what feels like the millionth time, people who have a house and don't want one are not lazy. Most of them ALREADY HAVE the gil. There are no plots available.

It's also worth knowing that Mateus is now full and no longer a preferred server. That they actually deluded themselves into thinking it would remain empty forever is their problem.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

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Sure! But then that means that unless SE declares it specifically, what they did isn't considered disruptive or against TOS. ( And again, any person with a single house can be considered 'disruptive' since there are no plots. ) No matter what way you spin it ( and that's all this is ) they're in the right. Also, just for future reference 'reads as' and 'is' are two separate things, which is why I made the distinction.

And you can keep repeating yourself. They were lazy because they CHOSE not to move to places to get plots, where the two that most people seem to be talking about weren't. And it's not delusion - it's irrelevant. It isn't "their problem" in the least - their problem is jerks harassing them.

They -were- lazy. Whether they're still lazy is irrelevant to the argument - as you said, no more plots.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

Insofar as anyone can own anything on SE's servers. Pay attention or don't quote me. They paid for the plots, and unless SE changes the way it works, within the confines of the game, they 'own' those plots. Yes, SE owns everything. Within the context of plot ownership, it's theirs. Responding defensively to abuse isn't 'snotty.' They were pissed because people are being dicks. They're allowed to retaliate to abuse.

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I'm paying attention. I just don't agree with you at all. They paid in game money, which that in game money is owned intellectually by S-E for plots and assets that, again are owned intellectually by S-E. The very characters they used to buy all of those assets with that game money is, guess what, owned intellectually by S-E.

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Reread ToS 3.2: "You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers." This reads as specific to TECHNICAL disruptions, i.e., DDoSing a player. By YOUR ridiculous aspersion, anyone that owns a single house, whether it's an FC house or personal, is 'interfering with the game experience of other players.' Because, gasp, they're taking up this 'limited commodity'. This is designed to be outside the context of gameplay, otherwise crafters should HAVE to craft for free because to do otherwise is 'interfering with the game experience.'

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So I guess by your own distorted, ridiculous view of the ToS, in game harassment, bullying, in game exploiting isn't disrupting or interfering with the gaming experience? Don't even attempt to go there about the two house hoarders being bullied about their staunch greed either - they brought this attention to themselves in the way of an interview they agreed to do and their comments in said interview do make them sound like snot nosed brats.

You DO realize that DDoSing doesn't go against the ToS as the people doing it don't even have to have an account to the game, but just be a bunch of random script kiddies who were paid to do it or doing it for the "lulz". DDoSing is an actual crime that is punishable by law. A ToS infraction is punishable by suspension or a ban and applies to actual people playing it. Telling me you're going to throw the ToS book at a bunch of DDoS weebs who don't even play the game? Seriously dude, give your head a shake.

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Words have meanings, Maiko.

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...What?

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I agree that SE has the right to change the circumstances, but they have NO obligation to bend to your whims. Much like missing out on the above point, they own everything. They can ban anyone for any reason - or no reason - including you. SE should fix this, but the ONLY WAY to fix this is by making all housing instanced. Adjusting it to 1 per account won't fix the overall issue.

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It isn't my "whims" they need to bend to. It's the society and the mess they created they need to bend to. By all accounts, people can stop subscribing to the game because they can't take full advantage of what the game has to offer. Sure, you can offer a Band-Aid solution but come the time FCs want to build their own airships and go exploring as an FC or solo or even hunt for items they can only get via exploratory missions. Those players miss out because of shallow greedy people who are up on their vanity. Why? Sure, the server is full now, but what were they expecting? It'd always be like this? They'd have some empty paradise forever and ever?

And that's when people just stop subscribing and will go to MMOs where those utilities are available. To say that it's a "Final Fantasy brand and people will never unsub from the game because of it" is also an ignorant way to think about it too. 28 plots of land taken alone lessens the chance people will keep the subscription for as long as someone who does have a house since you need to be on to avoid losing the house. You basically have to keep the upkeep on the sub if you want to keep the house.

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Their 'greed' isn't greed.

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If it walks like a duck... anyways, you and I are done, Venjamin. I'll let someone else indulge your so called logic.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

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Okay, so if you're paying attention, you would get that 'insofar as anyone can own anything on SE's servers' specifies that in the macro, SE literally OWNS everything. Within the context of the game, however, I can call "my character" my character. I can call anything that that character owns ( a la mounts, gear, etc ) mine. People are aware that contextually, I own the thing that are bound to my character so long as my account is still active and usable. I mean, this isn't a difficult concept, so I'm not entirely sure why you seem to be having such a hard time with it. Or do you literally call everything including your own avatar "Hey, this is SE's mount?" No, you introduce it as yours. Contextual understanding is pretty important.

No. In game bullying, harassing, etc, is not REALLY 'disruptive.' You right click and blacklist the person, and they are effectively erased from your gaming experience. Which is why I don't say people should STOP bothering those two, I just insinuate that those two are allowed to respond defensively to it.

Also, it's -super- hilarious that you think I'm talking about DDoSing the entirety of SE's servers when I'm talking about DDoSing a single individual. With the correct information, you can DDoS individuals - thus interfering with their game experience. That includes players who play the game DDoSing other players in Frontlines or people who have irritated them in one manner or another.

"Words have meanings" is a direct reference to you calling something that is completely valid an 'exploit' when it isn't.

Again, I agree wholeheartedly that SE needs to fix the situation. They should make housing instanced, and then this is no longer an issue for anyone. Anything short of instanced housing IS a band-aid. Saying that SE should punish these people and because that's what you want is pointless and futile.

The 'why' is irrelevant. The end point is that it's theirs ( again, within the context of what I wrote above - don't bother with pedantic arguments again. )

Let them leave. I genuinely doubt that housing alone is enough to break the camel's back.

Oh, and it doesn't walk like a duck. That's why I said 'greed' - because it isn't. Bye Felicia.

Coming from some solo drifter that started playing 3 months ago, and only owns a single apartment and probably will never own a house. Take my lines with a pinch of salt if you have to.

A server is small and has a LOT of empty lots for months, no one bats an eye. A refugee from a crowded server buys 28 houses in that small server, everyone loses their minds.

Jokes aside...

Is it their fault that they worked hard to have enough money for 28 plots? No. Should they be surprised that they get bashed for "hoarding" land? No. But is their reasoning reasonable? No. Farming for glamour/gear and mounts is accessible to everyone, housing isn't. Why are they surprised on getting harassment is beyond me, but two wrongs don't make a right: bashing at these hoarders make you look like assholes as big as the hoarders are.

Adding to my last post because I'm new here, so...

I like the idea of limited spaced housing because it actually feels like a neighborhood instead of half-assed "magical housing" like every other MMO ever. It's also nice being able to walk around in a neighborhood and get to see the kinds of designs people may have without having to go to some big building, and shuffle through lists of houses that most people don't even want visitors anyways. Basically apartments.

However, we don't have to choose one or the other. Why not have both instanced housing and housing in wards? A LOT of people hate visitors anyways. By this point, it's probably too late to do an entire revamp of the housing because we all know how much work and time people have put into decorating alone, so the best solution to solve this housing issue is to add on things. Everyone will have access to housing, and existing landowners don't have to do anything.

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Originally Posted by luicei375

Adding to my last post because I'm new here, so...

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In case you aren't aware there is no character limit in edit mode. The way to get around the 1K character limit on the initial post is to go back and edit it. What I do is type it all up, cut the excess text, post then edit and paste the remainder of the post.

The question i have is - how did they get the money!!!

I was in ARR beta, played for a couple of years saving all my gil to finally got a house that cost me 30 million, took everything I had! - so how can they afford a ward?