Stupid reason to report someone

OK! I admit it I've Auto-followed in leveling Roulette as a scholar with my Fairy out and and Alt tabbed watched youtube vids then got 3 commendations when I returned. #NoRegrets

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if a healer is holding anyone up the dps should do better since they are the ones slowing the run down.

i

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Minimal healing requirements are a lot less effort than pushing a decent DPS into High End DPS. While it's much easier for a Stance Dancer Healer to supplement the missing HIGH end dps. You're being silly.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Ok, so neither sides of the argument have made any ground, so let me settle this:

DPSing while healing is a stressful thing to do if you're new to the role. I get that. I was there. Every MMO healer has been there at some point. We get it.

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I just want to grab this portion to emphasis something discussed on the healer forum. None of us vocally critical of Healers expect optimal efficiency. We want to see some degree of effort. I'll happily accept a healer who turns on Cleric Stance, puts up DoTs and panics out once the tank takes a little it of damage. Why? Because they are trying. If I encourage them either through direct interaction or comms, it'll hopefully boost their confidence to keep at it. We have all been there at one time or another-- learning a new job. If you hop into a duty and announce you're new, I'll explain mechanics and have far greater patience with your mistakes because I'd like to see you improve. Where I lose patience is people who won't even try or stay utterly silent when someone points out mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

congrats we can insult people to get what we want!

disregarding what other people may prefer? what? you are telling them how to play to play.

a tank mass pulling can kill a group a healing not dpsing wont. not unless say the dps are so bad that they can't meet dps reqs.

my arguement wasn't about ilvl it was about dps reqs.

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It isn't an insult, but an observation. As you have mischaracterized my argument a second time, it's also a correct one. ;)

Let's try this one more time. If you queue into a dungeon, refusing to DPS when three other people want you to, in what scenario is that not you forcing your playstyle onto others? My refusal to dodge aoes is in response to your refusal not to contribute DPS. If you're at least vocal and ask the party to pull smaller, then you've given us a choice. Deciding beforehand and refusing to budge means we either have to go along with what you, the one person, wants, or kick you.

The argument remains the same. You don't understand the definition of carrying someone in MMOs. It is meant to apply people who perform poorly, thus their share of the weight needs to compensated by rest of the party. If three other DPS average 2,000 DPS and you only manage 1,000. You were carried, regardless of any requirements because we three DPS were forced to make up the difference for your lack of contribution.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

were forced to make up the difference for your lack of contribution.

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i don't think you understand how this works. if they meet the requirements you didn't make up the difference. you just made the number that much higher than the req.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It is meant to apply people who perform poorly.

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how is someone meeting dps requirements doing poorly simply because someone else can do more?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Let's try this one more time. If you queue into a dungeon, refusing to DPS when three other people want you to, in what scenario is that not you forcing your playstyle onto others?

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you are forcing a person to do something that isn't required of them.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

actually its not leeching because healers are required to dps to meet the end goal. if a healer is holding anyone up the dps should do better since they are the ones slowing the run down.

i do want discussion but the only reply is *you are lazy or bad if you don't dps* which is you opinion but there isn't much discussion if insults is the only thing people use as an arguement.

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Freudian slip? :p

We're going to try this one more time. If the tank pulls six mobs and a White Mage casts Holy. That is 920 potency. There is nothing, I repeat, nothing, any DPS job in this game can do to make up 920 potency. You are literally asking for the impossible. Just to emphasis it more, my ideal aoe rotation is Heavy Thrust -> Ring of Thorns -> Doom Spike. Those three abilities combine for a total potency of 2,030 on six mobs. In the same amount of time, the aforementioned White Mage will net 2,760 potency with three Holy spams.

Just so we're crystal clear. You expect a Dragoon to make up 2,760 potency, which is more than they even comparable of in the same time span.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I just want to grab this portion to emphasis something discussed on the healer forum. None of us vocally critical of Healers expect optimal efficiency. We want to see some degree of effort. I'll happily accept a healer who turns on Cleric Stance, puts up DoTs and panics out once the tank takes a little it of damage. Why? Because they are trying. If I encourage them either through direct interaction or comms, it'll hopefully boost their confidence to keep at it. We have all been there at one time or another-- learning a new job. If you hop into a duty and announce you're new, I'll explain mechanics and have far greater patience with your mistakes because I'd like to see you improve. Where I lose patience is people who won't even try or stay utterly silent when someone points out mistakes.

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Oh I'm well aware a lot of fellow healers are a lot more open, but as you can see by the numerous threads that a decent chunk of the rest aren't. Its also meant to enlighten those that don't heal that there's more stress to it than simply hitting one button. We healers know that cleric stance means at minimum roughly 7-8 seconds no healing, those that don't heal probably don't. Its mostly ignorance outside the healing community on that front or at least it tends to come off that way.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if a healer is holding anyone up the dps should do better since they are the ones slowing the run down.

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Actually...
A mediocre healer can add up to twice as much DPS to the party as a DPS going from mediocre to top tier. And that's just bosses, the large amounts of AoE go extra. On average. In dungeons, where they are the only healer.

You're saying here that both DPS should go from mid-tier to top tier to compensate for the healer not wanting to play even mediocre. And even if the DPS did, the healer could still shave off a handy 2-3 minutes off the run by playing mediocre, because their DPS is independent from that of the DPS. Yes, mediocre - You're the only one demanding people to play perfectly, namely DPS.

*brizzle fizzle*

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You're the only one demanding people to play perfectly, namely DPS.

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i don't expect or demand anyone to play perfectly i was simply saying at base value a slow run is do to dps not being up to par and people who have complaints about that should talk to the dps not the healer.

a healer can shave time off a run but it still requires everyone to play well to truely have a good run as even if you have a good dpsing healer it means nothing if your dps are bad to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Freudian slip? :p

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i am only lala!

i don't think anyone should have to make up for anyone! but i don't expect a healer to provide dps i think this is our view difference, by never putting the healing even into the solution i see it at base value.

yes a healer can really change a dungeon but i don't ever look at a healer like *you better dps oooo i am just waitin!*

i have always looked at it like as long as we beat the dungeon i dont have a care in the world.

even in speed runs i don't worry about a dpsing healer just the two dps aoe and we don't die. even if it's not as efficient as with a whm aoeing

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't think you understand how this works. if they meet the requirements you didn't make up the difference. you just made the number that much higher than the req.

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Honest, question. How does this even make sense to you? If the group has to reach a certain threshold, someone woefully underperforming forces the entire raid to compensate for their deficiency or we will wipe.

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how is someone meeting dps requirements doing poorly simply because someone else can do more?

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Because their lack of contribution forces other people to pick up the slack or the fight draws out. By your definition, someone can spend the entire fight auto-attacking or just spamming Bootshine and that's perfectly acceptable. If you believe it so, you won't find many people who share the sentiment.

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you are forcing a person to do something that isn't required of them.

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And they are forcing 3/7/etc other people to accept their subpar play. But I suppose Ice Mages, Bards who won't turn on Wanderer's Minuet and dead Dragoons are all okay because hey, we still cleared.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't think anyone should have to make up for anyone! but i don't expect a healer to provide dps i think this is our view difference, by never putting the healing even into the solution i see it at base value.

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Uh... you just contradicted everything you said above. That has been the crux of my argument. We shouldn't have to make up for someone else hence why any person performing well below their group is being carried.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

because healers are required to dps to meet the end goal.

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You agree that healers are required to dps to meet the end goal. :-D