Are healers lazy or do some really live by "I only heal"?

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

I just want to show, that this example is completely cut out of the real context.

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The cliche about agreeing to disagree comes to mind.

You aren't wrong about what Sylphie's story concerns when it comes to the whole life force bit, but I maintain that my broader interpretation remains valid and appropriate, especially when used to draw a comparison to players who similarly refuse to use the tools available to them. Not at all the same thing as being out of context. This hair really did not need to be split.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

meh I just heal and sometimes pew pew if the tank lets me... but if the tanks pulls every mob from start to boss well I guess i'll be healing instead of pew pewing.... unfortunately I've run in the more heal heal category then pew pew category... for some reason I usually run into the full throttle dps mode tanks that don't even bother throwing up the def buffs or anything else... so all I can do is heal heal heal.... so yea either way I could care less.:confused:

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This is fine too.

Tanks who do "mass pulls" are pushing the party to be better. Holding as much aggro as possible while outputting maximum Dps is the peak of Tanking and forces the rest of the Party to kick it into high gear. Dps have to kill as fast as possible, to help reduce incoming dmg. Healers have to stay on their toes with heals to keep the tank alive, and manage their debuffs/stuns as best as they can. Doing huge pulls is a good way of seeing who in the party is falling behind. If you die but the healer has plenty of Mp, then you know it's the healer. If the healer is bottoming out on Mp and the mob's not dead (or the tank has used more than one set/rotation of buffs) than the Dps are slow. If the tank can't hold aggro or fails to use debuffs, than the Tank sucks. A good sized pull always points out the weak link in the group because it forces the group to do their job to the fullest...

That being said, a Tank should NEVER do a large pull if they can't handle it. Any Tank who does not know how to use their debuffs while maintaining aggro and maxing Dps should stick to baby pulls. A Tank should also NEVER do a mass pull for the sake of their own Ego. It doesn't matter if you can handle it, personally, if the rest of the group will fall behind. It's a team effort. Trying to force the team to be better is fine, but if they can't do it than you're only slowing things down. At the very least, a tank who pulls big should make themselves aware of the average ilvl of the group, especially the healer.

I always do nothing but heal, up to the first boss of any dungeon. That gives me time to check if the Tank is capable of holding aggro, whether the DPS are good enough to not steal aggro from the tank, and most importantly, if the tank pops his cooldowns so he can survive for more than 2 seconds without healing.

Only if all 3 conditions are met will I strap on Cleric mode and start dishing damage.

Sad thing is, in the last 5 dungeons I've done only 1 run has seen me dealing damage. They were all levelling dungeons, but you'd think that by DD or AV, the tank would know what the defensive abilities are for. Healers can't heal through everything.

I have played many MMO's over the years (many more than I care to recount) and as much as I love it FFXIV has made me start to dislike it. If you solidly heal you get complained at for not doing any DPS. If you do DPS you either get in trouble for allowing people's health to drop lower than they would like (even if they don't die) or for not reaching certain DPS levels. When Tanking I just leave the healer to it, I don't understand why people feel that pressuring is a good idea.

I wonder if anyone has had a problem in which you don't DPS, as the Tank feels they don't need to dodge attacks, but then complains at you and possible even getting kicked??

I've mained healer since my Arcanist was level 30 and that has only happened to me about once in the entire 15 months I've played this game.

I've DPSed in order to make the dungeon go faster and been kicked (in Haukke's manor even though nobody died) only because the tank was scared he would die. I've been called the worst healer for trying to help tanks become more skilled.

I've also been giving commendations though too for the exact same thing. I strongly believe in DPSing as a healer as much as humanly possible. If things are still going slowly, I look at the DPS' gear. Even one undergeared person due to them leveling or being a fresh 60/50 will make a huge DPS difference.

I do not cuss them out for that though. I think the key to understanding is communication. I always say hello and I always ask the tank if what he is comfortable doing what he is doing. Until a while ago, I would do Big pulls and sometimes die but at the start of the match I would always tell them I'm newer to tanking since I don't main tank class.

I myself like stance dancing and dpsing in between healing, but if healer DPS isn't necessary to finish the fight why worry? In fact it bothers me a LOT if our DPS are so weak that I feel like I, as the healer, have to DPS to finish anything in a timely manner.

There's no need to expect perfection from healers in your random roulette for the day. And moreover, a lot of healers aren't comfortable switching, and I can see why; it can be difficult to tell when it's safe to switch with the CD on Cleric Stance - who knows what can happen in that five seconds? A healer's job is to heal first and foremost, and if they can't comfortably switch between the two, it's more important that they keep the party alive than stand around flinging Ruin and Malefic all day.

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Originally Posted by Elisara

I always do nothing but heal, up to the first boss of any dungeon. That gives me time to check if the Tank is capable of holding aggro, whether the DPS are good enough to not steal aggro from the tank, and most importantly, if the tank pops his cooldowns so he can survive for more than 2 seconds without healing.

Only if all 3 conditions are met will I strap on Cleric mode and start dishing damage.

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I approach tanking in a similar fashion. I push the limits on the first pull to make sure the healer can deal with additional dmg output. IF the healer can keep me alive and the dps are killing things fast enough that I only need one rotation of Def CD's before the mob starts to drop (no need to pop additional cooldowns when the enemies start thinning out. Dead monsters can't hurt me) than I'm not worried about anything.I'll mass pull the dungeon and let the healer do whatever they want. No complaints. They can dps if they wanna, but it's not necessary. If the group is good enough to speed pull, than the Dps and Tank should be outputting enough by themselves.

You'd be surprised about the tank learning curve, though. I main tank, and I was still learning how to effectively do my job well into the 40's. There are sudden jumps in Tanking difficulty at certain dungeon levels (30 and 40, if I remember correctly).

Dps are at their best when they can perfectly balance their rotation, but it's all Dps. Tanks, on the other hand, have to balance Aggro (which includes Dps) as well as Def. Each jump in lvl expects tanks to keep up with new tactics for effectively managing their skills, but NONE of the Tank story quests actually teach the tanks how to do these things. For example, there's no tank quest that involves teaching a tank how to properly group enemies together for a Dps burn. There's also no tank quest that teaches tanks the difference between a standard pull or a ranged pull (which is a huge problem in DD or AV for new tanks). It takes a lot more practice than other jobs. There's a sharper learning curve.

In a game where every encounter, aside from the last WHM quest is resolved by dpsing down the enemy, dps will be important. You can help with it or you can't. But an HP saved is an HP healed. If some adds die faster, you have less healing to do.

Eh. I do DPS on my healer, not through some god complex that I see being thrown around, but just because it's an approved method of screwing with the party, and if I get called out for it, I just snark that they shouldn't be so quick to eat avoidable damage.

I think there is some misunderstanding here.

Generally, there are two main scenarios that need to be treated differently, imo:

1) Someone in the party is new to the content, undergeared, lagging, underperforming, some combination of these or probably something else is "wrong" with the group (save the "new to the content"). In this scenario, you can't be possibly angry with the healer for not doing dps. I'd actually advice not to dps in this case because it is not worth the risk of wiping. If you really can't help it, go ahead and apply some dots. I think this is what makes good healer a great one - to know when it is the right time to stop dpsing and focus purely on healing, even if it means you have some "spare" time.

2) Everything is going smoothly, healthbars are barely moving, everyone is properly geared and experienced and it is absolutely clear that everyone is on the same page (mostly the older content). In this scenario, it would be very hard to defend the healer who only stands there casting their heals every here and there. This is where I think the criticism is pretty fair and most likely valid.

Of course, there are exceptions to every scenario, therefor it would be wise not to jump on the healer for not dpsing instantly when you start the duty. It is very important to evaluate the situation and then, based on some observations, you can tell what case it is.

You should think twice before calling healers bad for not doing dps. Also, you should not shield yourself forever with the argument "my job is healing, this is what I do, leave me alone", imo. Your job is to contribute to the party. If it was intended for you to only heal, healers wouldn't get new offensive spells in the expansion afterall, right?