WAR love is out of hand. Twelve forbid the other Tanks stand out in any way.

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Originally Posted by Daega

But on a serious note. Warrioirs pulling 3 Fell Cleave's back to back with crits is just absolutely stupid. It's higher burst than most dps. WAR have amazing utility and I'm happy for them. But when a tank does more dps than an actual dps it's time to rethink what the focus is.

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My DRK also does more damage on my opener than most dps. We should nerf DRK.
I can do more DPS on PLD in most encounters than the DPS in duty finder. We should nerf PLD.
Our SCH can do well over 1000 dps in A2, literally doubling osme of the DPS you find. We should nerf SCH.
I saw a summoner doign more damage than a BLM. We should nerf summoner.

Seriously, if we hit every class with the nerf bat once people start playing it well en masse, then you will never stop nerfing the game into the ground.
If another class is outshining your class, then you need to get better at playing your class.

http://www.interest.co.nz/sites/defa...olan-dec-2.gif

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Originally Posted by Daega

http://www.interest.co.nz/sites/defa...olan-dec-2.gif

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no Im pretty sure he got the point, altho the pic did give me a chuckle :D

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

no Im pretty sure he got the point, altho the pic did give me a chuckle :D

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No actually neither of you did, hence the pic. My point is the damage and burst of WAR is soley out of line because of the current mechanics of Fell Cleave. And to further my point I explained how this is proven in pvp. You see quite clearly how it is effected. In terms of burst and OP its WAR/SMN >other DPS and don't get me started about survivability(which I won't) It's not like that for no reason, so don't come back with a witty reply, focus on the point of the matter and the proof therein.
And no, i'm not talking about crappy dps that do 3-500 dps.

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Originally Posted by Daega

No actually neither of you did, hence the pic. My point is the damage and burst of WAR is soley out of line because of the current mechanics of Fell Cleave. And to further my point I explained how this is proven in pvp. You see quite clearly how it is effected. In terms of burst and OP its WAR/SMN >other DPS and don't get me started about survivability(which I won't) It's not like that for no reason, so don't come back with a witty reply, focus on the point of the matter and the proof therein.
And no, i'm not talking about crappy dps that do 3-500 dps.

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The problem is that people continually look at just the one skill and not the tool kit as a whole. WAR in full STR accessories can do a lot of damage with a triple fell cleave, you're right. However, a triple fell cleave requires 7 GCDs to set up (Swing > Maim> Eye > Swing > Maim(sunder) > Eye(block,path) > Swing) to put you into position to initiate the triple cleave. You need to have Berserk ready and Infuriate ready and you need to blow one of your good defensive cool downs (Vengeance/Raw Intuition). To compensate, the rest of WAR's attacks have less potency than their counterparts from the other tanks and do significantly less than any DPS attacks. WARs aren't running around just triple cleaving everytime they build 5 stacks and a single unbuffed cleave hits hard but is nothing incredibly special.

So WAR can wreck someone every minute and a half if you don't use Infuriate on cool down or 2 minutes if you use your infuriate before berserk is back up. Granted I don't do a lot of PVP but I would presume that most other jobs have the ability to kill someone every 1.5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Dement

The problem is that people continually look at just the one skill and not the tool kit as a whole. WAR in full STR accessories can do a lot of damage with a triple fell cleave, you're right. However, a triple fell cleave requires 7 GCDs to set up to put you into position to initiate the triple cleave. You need to have Berserk ready and Infuriate ready and you need to blow one of your good defensive cool downs. WARs aren't running around just triple cleaving everytime they build 5 stacks.

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Exactly ^^ no one is pulling triple cleaves in pvp, and what Daega doesn't realize is that it's actually not in the best interest of sustained dps to pull triple cleaves outside intial boss pull, no where in savage after those first 30 secs of a fight can I personally pull that off between mechanics and the fact I need my defensive CDs for tank busters not just stacks for dps. the average encounter is not a test dummy, can't apply that logic here.

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Originally Posted by Daega

No actually neither of you did, hence the pic. My point is the damage and burst of WAR is soley out of line because of the current mechanics of Fell Cleave. And to further my point I explained how this is proven in pvp.

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Balancing a PvE game around PvP is the worst thing the devs could possibly do.

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Originally Posted by Disc

Balancing a PvE game around PvP is the worst thing the devs could possibly do.

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If you have any idea what you were talking about you wouldn't respond with such a stupid remark.
PvP has it's own issues that have been responded to for good reasons. Cleric stance, summoner revives, and other certain abilities that are OP in pvp have been modified or taken out because of imbalance.
There is a reason WAR burst is at the top of dps with SMN. But WAR's will outlive several people at a time with self heals. Defense, heals, AND immense burst... That's called imbalanced.

EDIT: I play with a WAR friend of mine and he laughs about it because it's true.

I don't care how WAR performs in PvP. Five seconds of burst in PvE play doesn't mean much when your DPS checks are 30+ seconds long, they are nowhere close to a proper DPS. Nerfing them because they can kill some scrub in PvP every 90 seconds would be dumb.

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Originally Posted by Daega

If you have any idea what you were talking about you wouldn't respond with such a stupid remark.
PvP has it's own issues that have been responded to for good reasons. Cleric stance, summoner revives, and other certain abilities that are OP in pvp have been modified or taken out because of imbalance.
There is a reason WAR burst is at the top of dps with SMN. But WAR's will outlive several people at a time with self heals.

EDIT: I play with a WAR friend of mine and he laughs about it because it's true.

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Id asked your War friend how many triple cleaves he gets off in pvp, because any answer other than 0 is a lie. Doubles, definitely, but even then for a one shot, youd have to have fracture>full swing>SE combo>internal release>berserk>Infuriate and vengeance/RI off CD> and finish with a mercy stroke, and hope the guy doesn't get healed in between. And that's a caster, mind you, that'll not kill a drg or mnk with protect.