Please disable changing Cleric Stance during combat for make healer focus on healing.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

I do plan to raid seriously. And that last sentence is precisely my issue. I repeat, I suck at DPS. I don't play this game to DPS. That said, I can DPS during lulls, and am teaching myself to do so. But I can't do it with Cleric Stance. I'm very aware of my limits and realize that trying to stance dance is just asking for it.

My skill as a healer should not be judged by my ability or inability to DPS. It should be judged by how good I am at keeping everyone alive. That's the whole point of the role, after all (I play a WHM, BTW).

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Frankly this is less of an issue for WHMs since it's known that WHM DPS is entirely impractical without crafted gear for ACC. Unless you are pushing for server firsts, most parties will expect minimal DPS from their WHMs.

Technically you can still be good at healing without being able to DPS, but you won't excel at the healer role in this game without learning how to use your full kit.

Learning to DPS isn't difficult, particularly with the current version of WHM, which has a whopping 2 DoTs, 1 main single target attack, and a 30 sec oGCD to keep track of. Good healers already know to anticipate damage spikes and specific mechanics, so if you practice weaving those skill sets together, you have the full package and can use any tool when appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

I do plan to raid seriously. And that last sentence is precisely my issue. I repeat, I suck at DPS. I don't play this game to DPS. That said, I can DPS during lulls, and am teaching myself to do so. But I can't do it with Cleric Stance. I'm very aware of my limits and realize that trying to stance dance is just asking for it.

My skill as a healer should not be judged by my ability or inability to DPS. It should be judged by how good I am at keeping everyone alive. That's the whole point of the role, after all (I plan on playing a WHM, BTW).

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The SCH is one who is DPSing all the time. They do so much more DPS then WHM can. 350dps i think?
Due to a few reasons
Able to ignore acc
Have more opportunities too since they have lustrate , fairy, dmg reduction and shield
DOTS do more damage overall in less GCDs used

If you only cleric stance when you clearly are safe, that's fine. Because as a WHM your spells tend to miss and have lower potency then SCH DOTS. You also don't have that much mana to waste on too many missed spells. 1% wipes on boss is still lot of damage that your WHM dps won't ever make up lol. If you are able to comfortably let your SCH buddy focus on doing as much dps that should be enough or your DD and Tanks are doing too little DPS.

If Whm gets their Acc issues fixed then you will have to DPS alot more because your potential DPS shoots up dramatically, with the new Stone 3 spell and Assize.
AST will probally DPS alot less then since apparently they have lower dps then WHM and can compensate by using buffs to increase your parties DPS output instead.
If you run AST/WHM then you will have to be the DPS since AST should be buffing and WHM apparently has higher DPS then AST.
Though i do think WHM/AST is going to pretty bad in cutting edge compared to SCH and a AST/WHM. Because SCH works better in the DPS role then WHM does.
If you do hate the idea of DPS-ing as a Healer. Roll AST you are the least likely to DPS since you can compensate by buffing instead.
Unless they lied about AST and secretly it is amazing at DPS.

Side note for players wanting to become more comfortable with Cleric Stance:

Practice is how you improve.

Obvious tip is obvious, but I can't stress it enough. When I was a new player, I was nervous about using CS in group play, but I saw other healers do it successfully, so I knew it was possible. Then I read end-game discussions on this forum and started putting that info into practice. Before long, stance-dancing became natural and even automatic at times.

Learning to stance-dance also forces you to anticipate mechanics, which is a great practice in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Side note for players wanting to become more comfortable with Cleric Stance:

Practice is how you improve.

Obvious tip is obvious, but I can't stress it enough. When I was a new player, I was nervous about using CS in group play, but I saw other healers do it successfully, so I knew it was possible. Then I read end-game discussions on this forum and started putting that info into practice. Before long, stance-dancing became natural and even automatic at times.

Learning to stance-dance also forces you to anticipate mechanics, which is a great practice in and of itself.

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If these players arent touching Coil (or savage in Heavensward) then they don''t need to practice cleric stance outside of personal improvement . Alot of players are casuals that just want to relax instead of having to work twice as hard as the DPS. Alot of DPS actually play DPS because they want to have less responsibility lol.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If these players arent touching Coil (or savage in Heavensward) then they don''t need to practice cleric stance outside of personal improvement . Alot of players are casuals that just want to relax instead of having to work twice as hard as the DPS. Alot of DPS actually play DPS because they want to have less responsibility lol.

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Coil didn't teach me to play well; rather, being able to play well helped my learning curve in Coil.

Personally I play games for fun, and I have difficulty imagining slacking on gameplay to be fun, especially since it means more time spent retreading familiar content. What especially kills me are DPS who play to "relax" and then complain when their "relaxed" play style proves too godawful to perform well even at basic content.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You really don't get it, do you?

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I've been playing the game on and off since V1.0 Beta, kid. Nothing has changed in this game regarding people complaining about DPS as a healer.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

No one queues as a healer expecting only to dps.

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Nonsense. If this was the case you wouldn't see WHM's entering CS and never removing it. That's one of several kinds of bad WHM's.

I have never had anyone, in any party to date ever tell me to DPS or not DPS outside a RAID. In fact I've had more commendations when I haven't DPS'd at all. I have had co-healers people say they were not going to heal in 24-man raids. For every one that says they aren't, there's several who just don't heal in any meaningful way.

http://i61.tinypic.com/osa8ee.jpg
The fact is, people queue as healers because the queue is faster, and Hunt/FATE grind is boring.

The situation is much different with light parties, because as the Solo Healer, you're setting the pace. The average party is less crappy overall compared to the 24-man Raid, but just like the raid party, you have players trying to just faceroll over the content so they get carried. When you luck out and get a party that actually isn't all about speed-pulling the dungeon, then you see opportunity to DPS to make the trash pulls go faster.

But as I've said (across many threads in this forum)
1. There is NO REQUIREMENT of the healer to DPS.
and
2. The developers intent has NEVER REQUIRED the healers to DPS.

If you pick the healer role in the DF queue, don't be a jerk to the party and eschew your duty as a healer. Players like Cynfael are just fine Stance Dancing, and that suits their play style. It does not however equate with everyone is required to play like him, and the average player is awful when they do outside their Static party.

Whenever we have these threads on THIS forum, it always devolves into more people saying they don't want to do any DPS, a few people berating those that don't want to DPS as being lazy or incompetent. Then there is someone else who I won't name, who says they purposely make the Healer's job harder when they tank because they believe it so.

If people weren't so quick to be abusive to each other in this game over bloody playstyles then maybe we'd have less arguments of this kind in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If people weren't so quick to be abusive to each other in this game over bloody playstyles then maybe we'd have less arguments of this kind in the first place.

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This much I will agree with. Sometimes conversation can get heated (or even just appear that way since text is subject to the reader's interpretation regardless of how hard the writer might have tried to express their own), and I know that I am prone to talking myself into an elitist corner because I have such a difficult time relating to some of the concerns other players have in this area. I'm quite a bit more forgiving of my fellow players in actual gameplay than I come across as here.

On the flip side, it can be tough not to come down hard when players openly campaign for what one views as unnecessary and punitive changes to an entire role that would drastically impact your own play experience (referring of course to the OP).

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

I really hope you never had the joy of wiping sub 1% on any boss where your healers didn't do a single point of damage, not even on the long as fuck enrage cast (ie Ultima, Gigaflare).
No one expects healers to full time DPS, but not DPSing when your healing isn't required and just generates overheal is about as stupid as letting the tank die because you were busy doing your sick DPS. When you're new to content you probably won't have much time to DPS, but as you do content more often you should be able to see windows were you can DPS.
And no, I've never seen anyone complain that a healer does too little DPS or no DPS at all. It's up to the healer after all, but it's also up to the group if they wouldn't rather take a healer that can do more.

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1% wipes don't make healer DPS mandatory, and there's plenty of reasons you did or did not make that kill.

I've done realm first raiding. I've been there.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

1% wipes don't make healer DPS mandatory, and there's plenty of reasons you did or did not make that kill.

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There are. And this is one of them.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

There are. And this is one of them.

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Still doesn't make healer damage mandatory. Go get some more gear or stop dying to stupid.