I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

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I also find it bothersome people assume that we had to read the Japanese text to get the meaning... I did not. There were a few items I surmised but again that's about the respect I appreciated receiving (imo).

Why does the story have to delivered on a silver platter with fork instructions*? I've read many books that'd be poorly considered, that are somehow literary epics, if we had to be to this exacting or else "no way you could have known that, they didn't say it verbatim". The sin happening now and before was really the -only- thing I had to consider and to be honest it's fairly easy to guess that Ishgard the hater of dragons is doing things against dragons now, I mean seriously why wouldn't they? Even if I wasn't 100% sure if it was only past events or not, it did not effect the story because the truth would unfold naturally - as it would have to (future patch, head to Ishgard find out information - connect the dots).

The EN text is not that hard to read, I've used the word cryptic before but honestly it isnt even that, I left with no confusion only did I leave with a couple questions - and I like that. Getting all the answers in one go is generally disappointing story telling, ->imo<-.

*this comment addresses the "its not clear enough for me" which I think it was plenty clear for a story perspective (imo), it does not address the dislike of different culture dialog though (desire to have consistency does not have to relate to the desire for exposition information dumps).

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Originally Posted by Intaki

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Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

Also, i don't think anyone here said they should stop making the script more unique or complex, the goal of this thread is to stop the localization team from changing personalities and OMITTING information.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

Also, i don't think anyone here said they should stop making the script more unique or complex, the goal of this thread is to stop the localization team from changing personalities and OMITTING information.

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What part of that post is trying to invalidate people's opinion? She's providing a claim that directly contradicts the statement she replied to.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

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Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? Go check the likes if you want, they mean nothing as its impossible to know how many disagree without a dislike button. A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? Go check the likes if you want, they mean nothing as its impossible to know how many disagree without a dislike button. A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

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You can get some rough numbers by just checking every post in the thread, also i'm not invalidating anyone's opinion, if you check my other posts, in most of them i'm just providing information, in he other hand, Intaki have been quoting every post that disagrees with him/her just to repeat him/her opinion.

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Originally Posted by Virtuso

This is what I walked away with from that scene too. Also felt like he was still an enemy.

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Yeah he certainly came off as more malicious and with ill intentions for doing what he did. Now admittedly my brain turned off after the obligatory overused and unfunny internet pop culture reference because it was painful to see, but the main feeling I was left with was that he had shadier intentions rather than a more righteous test to see if we really deserve to be chosen.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

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Pretty much, it comes off as trying too hard to sound smart on the internet, see I totally understood the thing and you didn't, praise me for being great and intelligent for speculating and firing up all my braincells to figure all this too deep for you meaning that was also not that deep and pretty clearly stated in another language.

The only thing worth speculating about is the Echo, until now I don't really think it was stated to be separate from the Blessing. So now the Blessing that didn't do much except guard against Ascians that also didn't do much against us, at least not directly since the 2.0 main story, is gone but the Echo is still there, when that was also given by Hyadelin. The Blessing was removed but the Echo stayed even though Hyadelin's strength is too weak to maintain the first one, but apparently still strong enough to maintain the second stronger one, at least stronger because it actually does more in the game. There's also the point that IIRC in ARR and especially for new players both the Blessing and the Echo are given at the same time when the first crystal is collected, while old players had the Echo way before the Blessing was given.

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Originally Posted by Roris

The only thing worth speculating about is the Echo, until now I don't really think it was stated to be separate from the Blessing. So now the Blessing that didn't do much except guard against Ascians that also didn't do much against us, at least not directly since the 2.0 main story, is gone but the Echo is still there, when that was also given by Hyadelin. The Blessing was removed but the Echo stayed even though Hyadelin's strength is too weak to maintain the first one, but apparently still strong enough to maintain the second stronger one, at least stronger because it actually does more in the game. There's also the point that IIRC in ARR and especially for new players both the Blessing and the Echo are given at the same time when the first crystal is collected, while old players had the Echo way before the Blessing was given.

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Interesting, this is just speculation based on what we have seen and played, first in 1.0 and 2.0, the echo is a gift, not a power maintained by Hydaelyn, just a skill to be able to see the past and communicate with her and other not human or may be aethereal entities, i think Hydaelyn is now to weak to talk to us. About the blessing, i think we earned it by killing the primals, because in Japanese, Midgar says we may recover it by ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Renik

You can get some rough numbers by just checking every post in the thread,

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That works only for people who agree with you. Not that disagree. I rarely like any posts at all myself, regardless if I agree or not. Point is your posts says that likes reflect she's a minority when that's not how it works.

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Originally Posted by Renik

also i'm not invalidating anyone's opinion,

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Actually.....

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Originally Posted by Renik

A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was,

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Your post is nothing but attempting to invalidate his.

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Originally Posted by Renik

in he other hand, Intaki have been quoting every post that disagrees with him/her just to repeat him/her opinion.

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That means you're not reading HIS posts, as he states WHY what someone says is NOT true.
There very post YOU quoted boils down to:
Someone: 2+2=5
Him: Well I got a different number, so no =/= 5
You: Stop trying to invalidate his post! You're wrong!

This is a gross oversimplification, sure. We're discussing something that is PURE OPINION. There isn't a right or wrong answer. However most of the naysayers of the English translation aren't saying "This is how its easily interpreted" They're saying "This is the ONLY way its interpreted".

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Originally Posted by Roris

Pretty much, it comes off as trying too hard to sound smart on the internet, see I totally understood the thing and you didn't, praise me for being great and intelligent for speculating and firing up all my braincells to figure all this too deep for you meaning that was also not that deep and pretty clearly stated in another language.

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From the ones I've seen say they understood it, myself included, the intent was not a better than thou purpose. People said "its not intelligible" and others said, yes, yes it is. You can force a lie "you needed the Japanese text" and then say not only are they lying to how they came to a realization but that they are also saying everyone else is less intelligent for the outcome.. to do that seems bankrupt though. In fact multiple times throughout my posts I've strictly said I'm not making a judgment of intelligence.

I don't think this is even a moderately fair assertion.

The text did -not- confuse me, I did -not- go read the Japanese version prior to being not confused. Reading the Japanese version only confirmed what I already had mentally constructed from the information - and the information was generally already straight forward, just not verbose and redundant.

Of course, imo, everyone has a right to their own sense of mind and may be confused for many reasons, like playing at 4am on 2 hours of sleep - pretty sure half of 1.0 is out of my memory because of that.. lol.

Again though, its not a better than thou - I just didn't feel confused and I felt respected to have a believable character response and construction of dialog.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about other people's personal experiences. Myself and others have already said we came to those exact same conclusions during our original exposure to the English dialogue.

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The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to have an objective comparison without having someone who hasn't seen the Japanese text summarise the English text and then compare it to a summary of the Japanese text. It's quite easy to point out what appears to be information omitted from the English text by direct comparison however.