We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

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Originally Posted by Sequora

Honestly at this point I wouldn't expect any major changes until the expansion. SMNs were stating their arguments for buffs at the very beginning of 2.4. If something was going to be done I would expect it to have been done when they buffed DRGs in 2.45. FCoB is almost certainly going to be the hardest content until 3.0. 2.5 will bring the last piece of the crystal tower storyline. Yoshi P said that it will be in line with the difficulty of the previous two raids. There's a live letter this weekend, but I would assume its focus is going to be on either 3.0 and or 2.5.

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SE always does balance changes in the big patches, 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4, however small (or huge) they are sometimes. I have no doubt SMN will get adjusted, I just hope it's as impacting as WAR/BLM/DRG.

I don't want SMN to be godly, I just want them to be competitive T10-13. Anything in the future, they can change with the level cap raise, adjust numbers then if they want SMN identity to be lower DPS but higher utility/toolset. We need level 50 tuning, a bandaid fix of just MP and damage would be fine for our purposes.

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Originally Posted by Miotoss

Utterly clueless. no one ruin 2 spams.

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I have seen this said a couple times in various forms. Let us all reiterate if you believe this you have clearly not been reading anything in this thread, and you are clearly not an endgame summoner.

All these issues have been apparent for quite awhile (arguably starting since t8 to be perfectly honest). Hell, I even had to switch to WAR for FCoB because of all the issues. Honestly the reason why SE has taken their time to respond to this thread is because they shot themselves in the foot by making 1 class have 2 jobs. Granted many people have given wonderful suggestions but now SE has to be more creative on how to buff one without buffing the other.

Bottom line, they never should have taken Thunder away and yes it is time to give it back. This would solve nearly every dps issue.
It's obvious Aetherflow won't be touched until level cap increase in 3.0 so for mp the most practical (and simplest; read less time/$$ consuming) solution is to put piety on gear just like healers have accuracy on theirs. This is a complete no-brainer.
And for the love of all that is holy separate caster gear sets already!

I can't even go into Spell Speed, SE already acknowledged in a not so straight forward way that they know its nearly useless because they said they are retooling it for 3.0 , but the above mentioned are a good band-aid until 3.0. Perosnally, I find spell speed is the biggest issues, and this situation shows that they have been drastically neglecting class balancing and secondary stat options. SMN Ironworks book SE, really? The scholar ironworks book is better at dps than the piece of crap smn ironworks book. This is something that has definitely scarred my experience in ARR sadly.

I have been playing smn since the start of 2.0, it was my first level 50 and, while I dont have many dow/dom's up to 50, I have played enough of nearly everything that I know without a doubt summoner is my one true passion in this game. This has nothing to do with being top dps and everything to do with SE doing a much better job in the future about how they handle job growth and development.

*unrealistic wish, Please take the battle rez away from us so that uneducated players will stop throwing it in our faces as a beneficial skill.

piety in gear will help blm more than smn (more mp to spam fire ) , reducing ruin I II mp cost is the easy solution ,separating caster gear is a no-no we have enough gear that goes to no1 already ~~ and loot tables are huge in some bosses.

and every other tier has been "·!$! for some jobs , last 1 was hell for bards and drg , lots of Skill speed every1, and have u seen other weapons? bard has acc and skill speed ....i find it infuriating.

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

stuff

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I don't nessecarily believe giving thunder back will fix all of the issues. Thunder WAS huge, yes, but giving back Thunder, with its massive MP Cost, will just exacerbate the MP problem, the damage will go up, sure, but it won't fix the MP part of the problem.

Piety on gear won't fix it either, because SMN and blm both share the gear atm - so more piety would just make BLM even better - especially when they get to the magic number of a 6th fire in their Fire rotation.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Because if your SMN is the one doing the Battle Rez, something has gone extremely, extremely wrong. Like, three deaths in under a minute wrong, or two healer deaths wrong. If it's down to that point, there's a fair chance it's going to be a wipe, anyway, especially when the SMN can't DPS anymore because he just spent a minute's worth of MP on a single cast.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Piety on gear won't fix it either, because SMN and blm both share the gear atm - so more piety would just make BLM even better - especially when they get to the magic number of a 6th fire in their Fire rotation.

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Well, they *could* put it only on the weapon, but it's hard to imagine them putting a significant amount all onto one piece.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

piety in gear will help blm more than smn (more mp to spam fire ) , reducing ruin I II mp cost is the easy solution ,separating caster gear is a no-no we have enough gear that goes to no1 already ~~ and loot tables are huge in some bosses.

and every other tier has been "·!$! for some jobs , last 1 was hell for bards and drg , lots of Skill speed every1, and have u seen other weapons? bard has acc and skill speed ....i find it infuriating.

why u will want battle rez removed ? ~~ , smn is the only dps that can do it is an awesome perk

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Piety on separate gear sets, obviously blm does not need any piety. And our battle rez has no place in end game without the mp production to support its use (without penalty to dps going beyond scope of simply mp cost).

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Originally Posted by Odowla

I don't nessecarily believe giving thunder back will fix all of the issues. Thunder WAS huge, yes, but giving back Thunder, with its massive MP Cost, will just exacerbate the MP problem,

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Well, this goes in tandem with the mp/piety issue, we could not make use of thunder without a mana adjustment of some variation.

A separate gearset for SMN with piety replacing spellspeed could be an interesting concept. You'd still prioritize crit/det, obviously, but it would make our auxiliary stat a bit better than "useless". You'd dump just as much of it off gear as you could afford, but extra would give you more wiggle room for pet resummons and battle rez.

SMN has an awesome damage, while not total burst of "Imma going to do three skills and kill that add" they still have a very powerful DPS and good constant-AoE for up to 4 enemies (And most dungeons are like that).

Using SMN well, very well, it's not easy, and the difference between that and use it average is high, super high. In my opinion is the caster most difficult to use (Well, of course, BLM is a joke). If you know which pet to use and you use all the skills manually and you know really well how to use SMN, it doesn't really need any buff at all, aside.....:


- Increase the max DoT a monster can have. It is the unique disadvantage of the summoner, dealing in ST or hunts with the fact that DoT is limited to 60 per monster-boss.

To the fact of having a good DPS (Tricky and hard to max out, but, hey). You also have the unique super mega exclusive abbility of being able to raise, and nothing, NOTHING in this game like rez the healer or healers in the best moment and save a run that'd be lost if you'd be with other DPS class.

Perhaps also adding a little more of piety to gear... But, I have not really had MP troubles yet with my SMN, and its weapon is a shitty zenith, and the gear is all the soldiery one with crappy bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

To the fact of having a good DPS (Tricky and hard to max out, but, hey). You also have the unique super mega exclusive abbility of being able to raise, and nothing, NOTHING in this game like rez the healer or healers in the best moment and save a run that'd be lost if you'd be with other DPS class.

Perhaps also adding a little more of piety to gear... But, I have not really had MP troubles yet with my SMN, and its weapon is a shitty zenith, and the gear is all the soldiery one with crappy bonuses.

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At first I was going be super smelly and sounding like an elitist jerk :p But for some reasons your way of writing is just too cute for my heart :), so I'm gonna be gentle for once.

The thing is, the whole debate in this thread is mainly aimed to midcore/raider (endgame) situations, back in the past the smn community already had a warning about a possible MP management issue when we firstly met turn 8 in scob but every other turns were kind of "decent" and with a proper mp management you shouldn't encounter much problems.

Today is a whole and new story, welcome in fcob where every single turns got adds (mostly ton of adds), no cooldown-moments for mp management and those said reasons will lead to radical / critical situations where you may no longer be able to maximize your dps as a SMN because of a terrible lack of mps.

And about raise during fights... To make it short, a raise during turn 13 will most likely mean to just wipe and restart.

Because of that, SMN is now in a very bad position when it come to a competitive point of view, a good leader with the will of getting a fast progression into fcob will aim for the best team setup and so for the good of its team... Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

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Unless its a Good SMN vs a Shitty BLM, Yes.

SMN Actually has burst, and that's about it, they're pretty good at it (bursting as hard as bards, wut), but that's about it - their PPS drops instantly once their Raging Strikes falls off.