Break the Trinity System Please

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

Be still my heart- always loved being a support class. I especially miss Chanter (from Aion). The best and most loved support class I can think of. Loved those yummy mantras:

Victory Mantra - Increases Attack.
Shield Mantra - Increases Physical Defense, Block, Parry and Evasion.
Magic Mantra - Increases Magic Boost and Magic Accuracy.
Celerity Mantra - Increases Movement Speed.
Revival Mantra - Recovers HP.
Clement Mind Mantra - Recovers MP.
Intensity Mantra - Increases Crit Strike.
Protection Mantra - Increases All Elemental Defense.
Enhancement Mantra - Increases Stun Resist.
Invincibility Mantra - Recovers MP and increases Attack, Physical Defense, and Magic Boost.
Hit Mantra - Increases Crit Strike, Crit Spell, Strike Resist and Spell Resist

http://i.imgur.com/02bRTdb.jpg

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Then you met a Spiritmaster in PvP and cried many, many tears.

The good 'ol days

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Wasn't there like one class in very early FFXIV that was solely for supporting shields that eventually got rolled into GLD because it was redundant? I think that's how any support would happen I think.

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I believe it was something called sentinel. Although I dont remember it being released. Also back in the day gladiators had to push a button to raise their shield and block.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

I believe it was something called sentinel. Although I dont remember it being released. Also back in the day gladiators had to push a button to raise their shield and block.

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Sentinel was a skill ranked up on it's own and not tied to any class.

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Originally Posted by chococo

Sentinel was a skill ranked up on it's own and not tied to any class.

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Do you remember what it was for? Im thinking it was something to do with shields.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

Do you remember what it was for? Im thinking it was something to do with shields.

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Shields, shield blocking and so on. The shield blocking skills GLA and PLD currently have are based on some of the stuff you got from Sentinel.

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Originally Posted by LeCard

You forgot Bard, most do. If there is a BLM/SMN in your party a Bard can directly affect DPS by using Foe Requiem ballad for, I think, 10% boost to dmg taken by mobs from magic damage. It could also be used to increase a healer's DPS if you really wanted to, but that could get questionable and/or risky depending on how much healing they need to be doing.

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This only applies if everyone in the raid were a magic user, which is not always the case. If the group is caster-heavy (as in, your DPS are all either BLM or SMN) then yes, a BRD with Foe's Requiem up will notably affect damage output.

The context of what I'm talking about is stuff that affects everyone. NIN pretty much has the only debuff in the game that increases everyone's damage. That's akin to Icy Talons (+Haste rating to everyone in the raid so long as the DK kept it up), 4.0 Blessing of Might (increases everyone's main stat by X%), or 3.0 Sanctified Retribution (directly increased damage taken from all sources by the mob).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The context of what I'm talking about is stuff that affects everyone. NIN pretty much has the only debuff in the game that increases everyone's damage. That's akin to Icy Talons (+Haste rating to everyone in the raid so long as the DK kept it up), 4.0 Blessing of Might (increases everyone's main stat by X%), or 3.0 Sanctified Retribution (directly increased damage taken from all sources by the mob).

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all three of your example are WoW...
Ninja upgrades slashing damage only, meaning WAR/PLD/NIN so if your DPS is all Ninjas then sure, your DPS is going to jump more than having 1 or 2 mages in a party with a Bard. The Bard's ballad also lasts longer than 10s so the DPS boost from a Bard could be more than a Ninja. Ninja doesn't up magic, peircing, or blunt dmange. Ninja is really just Bard with close range attacking and no support for healers mp.
Bard-tp boost, mp boost, magic dmg boost
Ninja-single person tp boost, slashing dmg boost

All these other Support Examples sound really cool...

I feel like a "support" role could be added if they kept it tied into raid like content like Coil. However pulling this off wouldn't exactly be easy since there would have to be a way to make these roles applicable in the traditional role system in place for dungeons.

Doing something like well add a 5th slot wouldn't help since you can't magically change all past dungeons to have 5 members nor can you alter it where that new role would work for those dungeons.

To make the new role work you would have to think of it in a present tense manner and ignore the past while producing a manner to make them perhaps fill a DD role in older content.

With the mention of chakra up above a potential way to do this would be the following manner.

So we have all these DD roles in the game atm, which means that a potential idea could be to allow these DD roles to change their skillset to "Support" role which would change the dynamic of how they play compltely and tie mainly into doing raid content.

Let's use Mnk and chakra/chi like concept, perhaps their alternative role could be "Chi master" and their main gimmick would be the ability to remove/imbue special attributes onto players aka maybe adding that whole elemental barrier into the game, so you are fighting a boss in a raid that uses a poweful fire attack. The support role of "Chi master" would have to pay attention to the cues and in order to survive the attack they would have to use their support to aid the raid otherwise and instant to near instant wipe aka hard to recover from. But the thing to keep in mind is when you add in a new role you have to consider how it will play out in content, you can't add a role and magically it works to make the game harder the game has to be designed with that role in mind and that's what makes it so hard to just add a new role is the fact that mechanics have to be put in place to make it relevant.

Currently the game works as it does because there are cues to keep in mind for DD to play an active role in keeping themselves alive and limiting the amount of healing that needs to be done. The healer keeps the party alive and the tank holds the mob to absorb all the damage. It works out nicely because each role does play a pivotal role in keeping the battle flow stable. If a DD gets hit by an attack they could of dodged it throws off the flow of dmg output, the healer has to raise in order to regain that dmg output and in turn they lose the MP that could of be used to keep others alive. then of course the tank that fall back on the other tanks to make sure stability isn't lost when a tank goes down, reason you have two but at the same time the 2nd is needed to take adds as needed but overall the game is designed with the thought that all these are needed.

Stress is relieved from both the tank and healer by having two in the party so as a healer you aren't auto screwed if they die, you still have the other that can keep things stable and get the other one back up if something bad happens but at the same time it is hard to keep it stable when it happens but it's not impossible.

Adding another role just makes it a bit more complicated to create content that is challenging and keeps it all in mind while it's possible there are just more variables to consider and keep in mind from a balance point of view.

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Originally Posted by LeCard

Wat

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He means Trick Attack, which effects the entire party/raid and is thr only class to do so.

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Originally Posted by LeCard

all three of your example are WoW...
Ninja upgrades slashing damage only, meaning WAR/PLD/NIN so if your DPS is all Ninjas then sure, your DPS is going to jump more than having 1 or 2 mages in a party with a Bard. The Bard's ballad also lasts longer than 10s so the DPS boost from a Bard could be more than a Ninja. Ninja doesn't up magic, peircing, or blunt dmange. Ninja is really just Bard with close range attacking and no support for healers mp.
Bard-tp boost, mp boost, magic dmg boost
Ninja-single person tp boost, slashing dmg boost

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http://www.ffxivinfo.com/class/rogue...y=trick-attack

ALL damage by 10%.