A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Worst part about it is, a point that has been brought up is that they'll see that the lack of healers means it's still too stressful or hard somehow and still just keep treading in the current direction.

It's sad and depressing to think about, but that's likely what's going to happen regardless of what anybody says. This has been going on for several years now, and they haven't budged an inch.

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Healing too stressful > add/buff player defensives > tune content for said defensive > healing too stressful

Simultaneously, experienced players who use these defensives quit the game in droves, giving you a situation where both ends of the spectrum don't want to play the role.

Anyway, here's medica 3. Go play ultimate or something

Go play ultimate where the tank is still out healing you in single target but it’s 10% less egregious than in cleave content so everything is fine

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Go play ultimate where the tank is still out healing you in single target but it’s 10% less egregious than in cleave content so everything is fine

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While I agree that tank healing is getting to be too much, let's not overblow the situation here. No tank can outheal a healer, not even WAR. The problem is that no fight requires our HPS.

TOP was cleared without healers not because the DPS and tanks can outheal the healers, but because nothing kills you in that fight with a crumb of mitigation and damage is spaced out far enough that you don't need dedicated healing to get through. If you take a modern no healer team to do O4S, it wouldn't go as well. (So you cleared Grand Cross Omega? Take an Almagest.)

If they wanted to fix it, they'd have to up damage frequency, not damage intake. Let's imagine a fight that does 8k damage to the party every 3 seconds for 60 seconds, then let's look at one that does 80k damage every 30 seconds. They both do 160k after a minute, but one is significantly easier to do with no healers.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Someone passionate, listens to feedback and actually care about the health of healers in the ffxiv team needs to be promoted.

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Nah man they'll just get replaced after they start learning to heal Extreme Trials.

At this point it’s really not an exaggeration

On single target per minute WAR heals (this is all in healer potency btw and assuming that thrill isn’t used to buff any of these)

2400 potency from bloodwhetting ((5*400*2)*(6/5))/2

1100 potency from equilibrium

About 750 potency from storms path

So about 4250 healer potency per minute assuming bloodwhetting is used mostly on CD (6650 if you use glint instead of bloodwhetting) (if I used thrill to buff 1 bloodwhetting and equilibrium that’s adding an extra 420 potency per minute)


Now let’s look at WHM as a comparison, everything I listed for WAR is lossless healing, so let’s do the equivalent on WHM

3*800 for 3 charges of solace

About 1000 from Bene given a tanks HP bar is about 3000 potency of healing but you get it once per 3 minutes

600 from assize (AOE but you are going to use it on CD)

700 from tetra

1000 from bension

For a total of 5700

If I add lilybell and asylum for better comparison with glint (swapping solace with rapture would be unchanged since it’s 800*1 or 400*2

1050 for asylum

An extra 400 for assize

400 for lilybell

For 7550 total

So ignoring thrill WAR is competing with an actual healers single target potency given you’d never actually spend all 3 lilys on solace in a given encounter

Healers AOE potency being massively under-utilised is the bigger problem but WAR’s (and PLD isn’t far behind) single target potency is competing with the healers single target lossless potency at this point which is frankly ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Nah man they'll just get replaced after they start learning to heal Extreme Trials.

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At the very least we'll get a few runs of a proper amd engaging healer kit.

Honestly? Kind of sad that this thread has existed since ShB and is still relevant to this day. If any of the devs/community manager reads this, please understand that the people dissatisfied within this thread aren't trying to antagonize the people making this game. It's just that as a role, there are numerous things to be dissatisfied about and they are all contained within this one sub-forum. It creates a very chaotic environment where communication is very difficult. I will try to note down as succinctly what these dissatisfaction are:

• Healing-wise, our healing kit is too strong and other role's defensive tools are also getting stronger. Leading to a decreasing reliance on healers on all segments of content; to the point that entire savage and ultimate fights have been cleared without healers. We do not want to feel meaningless in a party.

• Damage-wise, healing becoming too strong leads to an increased amount of downtime for healers. This downtime is filled with a one-button rotation. We do not feel happy when downtime is numerous. Having a good party does not mean that our role should be boring.

• Communication. In my opinion, this is the most important point. I respect YoshiP as a manager and I believe in his leadership of the game. However, communication regarding the healer role in EW has been the worst I've seen in the entire time I have been playing. Starting from the EW job trailer, "We do not know what to do with Scholar" or "Sage is a DPS healer, if you are unsatisfied with glare spam go play Sage" or "If you want engaging content, go play ultimate".
  
  I am not trying to place the blame on just a single person, I do not expect YoshiP to know everything about every role. At the same time, he bears the responsibility of messaging the developer's intent of the role to the players. This leads to two possibilities:
  1. There is a massive miscommunication between the developers designing the healers and YoshiP. Which is concerning due to how long this has been happening.
  2. There is a severe lack of understanding of the role from the developers. From the three statements I listed, it respectively shows a lack of direction of the healer jobs, a lack of understanding of the job, and a lack of care/empathy towards the overall experience as a healer.

Addressing any one of these issue would be a massive improvement to player satisfaction in this role.

JP translation with DeepL below. I've modified some words to make it easier to read, but the tone is probably still too aggressive as I don't have the time to manually translate it.

正直なところ？このスレッドがシャドウブリンガー以来存在し、今日まで関係しているのはちょっと悲しい。もし開発者/コミュニティ・マネージャーの誰かがこれを読んだら、このスレッド内で不満を抱いている人たちは、このゲームを作っている人たちを敵に回そうとしているのではないことを理解してほしい。ただ、ロールとして、不満に思うことが数多くあり、それらがすべてこの1つのサブフォーラムに含まれているということです。コミュニケーションが非常に難しい、混沌とした環境を作り出している。これらの不満が何なのか、できるだけ簡潔に書き留めておこうと思う：

• ヒーリングの面で、私たちのヒーリングキットは強すぎるし、他のロールのディフェンスツールも強くなっている。その結果、あらゆるコンテンツでヒーラーへの依存度が低下している。サベージやアルティメット戦では、ヒーラーなしでクリアできるほどだ。私たちはパーティーの中で無意味だと感じたくない。

• ダメージの面でも、ヒーリングが強くなりすぎると、ヒーラーのダウンタイムが増える。このダウンタイムを埋めるのが、ワンボタンのローテーションだ。ダウンタイムが多いと、私たちは幸せを感じない。良いパーティを作るということは、私たちのロールが退屈であってはならないということではない。

• コミュニケーション。私の意見では、これが最も重要なポイントだ。私は吉Pを監督として尊敬しているし、彼のリーダーシップを信じている。しかし、エンドウォーカーにおけるヒーラーのロールに関するコミュニケーションは、私がプレイしてきた中で最悪のものだった。エンドウォーカーのジョブトレーラーから始まって、「学者をどうしたらいいかわからない」、「賢者はDPSヒーラーだ。グレアスパムに不満があるなら賢者をプレイしてほしい」、「魅力的なコンテンツを求めるなら絶をプレイしてほしい」。
  
  吉Pがすべてのロールについて知っているとは思っていません。同時に、彼は開発者の意図するロールをプレイヤーに伝える責任を負っている。このことから、2つの可能性が考えられる：
  1. ヒーラーをデザインしている開発者と吉Pの間に大規模なミスコミュニケーションがある。このようなことがいつから起こっているのか、気になるところだ。
  2. 開発者のロールに対する理解不足。私が挙げた3つの発言から、それぞれヒーラーの仕事に対する方向性の欠如、仕事に対する理解の欠如、ヒーラーとしての全体的な経験に対する配慮や思いやりの欠如を示している。

これらの問題のどれかひとつでも解決すれば、このロールにおける選手の満足度は大幅に向上するだろう。

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Originally Posted by Aravell

If they wanted to fix it, they'd have to up damage frequency, not damage intake. Let's imagine a fight that does 8k damage to the party every 3 seconds for 60 seconds, then let's look at one that does 80k damage every 30 seconds. They both do 160k after a minute, but one is significantly easier to do with no healers.

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Yeh well, this is litterally the issue with healing... It's just a big boom every 30/60s and that's it. Hence the healing game being a mitigation check.
As long as you can mitigate properly, nothing can really kill you. Everything is done without a single gcd 95% of the time, excluding the very few cases where there's actually a decent amount of damage going on, that 95% can just be cheesed by adding an extra gcd heal.

Like, how many times did I just add an extra aspected helios during prog because "just in case". it wasn't necessary, but it litterally turned something 'tight' to 'chill'.

And even in dungeon... I'm really not saying expert roulette should be hard to heal but... like... can it require more than Assize, whispering dawn and Earthlystar?
That a bunch of very competent players with very specific jobs could do an Expert roulette without a healer, sure why not... but that it requires virtually no specific skill... like... the message is litterally "healers are useless in dungeons".. beside when you're leveling.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Yeh well, this is litterally the issue with healing... It's just a big boom every 30/60s and that's it. Hence the healing game being a mitigation check.

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On the flipside, ShB didn't have that many mit checks which made any healer comp viable. Good luck playing double regen in something like Abyssos or DSR.

God the pure-barrier split is awful. It never feels like they designed fights with this in mind; more that they designed it with mit checks that the pure healers cannot fulfill. Just another failure in the healer role