ARR Gil Cap Reduction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

If I call you MISTER then you must call me Maester Starlord :o Or NO DEAL! XD.

---

yes Maester Starlord...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

yes Maester Starlord...

---

MISTER Matsume.... :/ lol OKAY THIS IS GETTING WEIRD LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

https://devcentral.f5.com/weblogs/im...Palm_thumb.jpg

You gunna make up your mind Noctis? I'm starting to question the validity of anything you say...

---

No... I'm sorry what I meant the first time was that it wasn't simply a reduction of the gil cap alone like so many people thought. I should've made it clearer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No... I'm sorry what I meant the first time was that it wasn't simply a reduction of the gil cap alone like so many people thought. I should've made it clearer.

---

Its all good. I think this thread has run its course. Nothing left to do but wait.

Only got 27 mil and have been trying to think of a way to make some money from this. The only way I could think of is make 3 million characters and put 9 gil on each character, that way I keep all 27 million presuming that if you have less than 10 gil on a character its not just wiped completly. So it is possible to keep it all :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyra

Only got 27 mil and have been trying to think of a way to make some money from this. The only way I could think of is make 3 million characters and put 9 gil on each character, that way I keep all 27 million presuming that if you have less than 10 gil on a character its not just wiped completly. So it is possible to keep it all :P

---

Did you not read the part where they said single digit gil items would be destroyed? I would assume that applies to players with single digit amounts of gil as well, it will be wiped. There is no way around it. Your gil is getting reduced by 90%.

What if you only have 1 gil? would they cut my gil in half? ;( LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

What if you only have 1 gil? would they cut my gil in half? ;( LOL

---

Sucks for Gath. Guess his one Gil isn't going to be worth much... oh wait it never was!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyra

Only got 27 mil and have been trying to think of a way to make some money from this. The only way I could think of is make 3 million characters and put 9 gil on each character, that way I keep all 27 million presuming that if you have less than 10 gil on a character its not just wiped completly. So it is possible to keep it all :P

---

your 3 chars with 9m each will turn into 3 chars with 900k each :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

That's MISTER Professor Einstein to you!

---

Be a good Mister now~

I don't mind the redenomination at all. I was already planning on getting up my BTN and Min levels and hoarding a couple of stacks of common to high level woods and ores. Aside from hides for leather furniture, I should be set until the market fluctuations have had a chance to settle somewhat and even then I might continue to gather my own stuff. Some combatants out there might be unable to procure their own wood and ores, but they can get their own hides and I'd be willing to trade with them and craft things with their mats for them. All in all, I and everyone I know should come out just fine even with wild market fluctuations (which, as others have already mentioned, would be a big issue with the new game anyhow).

The people who don't know me or aren't on my world should be able to do the same thing: either work hard on becoming self sufficient or find someone who already has for a little give and take without being gouged. Yes, the market is a major part of the game's economy, but there are a lot of crafters out there who sincerely wish to help so long as they aren't the worse for it. If you bring them mats, they're very likely to cut you a great deal if not outright do it for free* (*they'd take the mats but nothing else). A little networking goes a long way.

If anyone on Ridill (or whatever server I end up on after the whole regional server thing happens, I might move with my LS if they decide to move) needs furniture and other house stuff made after 2.0 launches, look me up. All of my crafts are 50 and I have all the luminary tools. In case anyone's wondering: no, I did not bot to get them up; I've been working on them since January and only got my last luminary earlier this month, while doing almost no combat content, just grinding away. That's slow by many standards XD But yeah, drop me a /tell if you need me for any crafting, I'll be happy to help. If you feel like donating any hides or crystals/shards or any other crafting materials, then feel free to do so but it's not obligatory. All I strictly ask is that you bring the mats for your own items.

To those not on my server, ask around! I'm sure there are plenty who would be willing to provide the exact same service without charging you millions of your newly condensed gil. Anyone in an LS probably has access to crafters who work for the LS too.

Sorry that this basically became an advertisement but I just wanted to point out the more personal crafting side of things which seemed to be overlooked so far. If prices are too high on the markets, don't use them. Force those prices down by going where the bargains are.

With the new mail system to come, you won't even need to meet your crafters to still take advantage of our cheap services, you just need to post the materials and a polite note explaining what you need and by when. I suggest going by friends' referrals for that though, nothing really stopping those mail order crafters from running off with your mats except reputation.

I hope everyone can get the house and furnishings and new gear that they dream of without being gouged pricewise for it, and I really think that the only way that that will be possible is if everyone stands firm for the prices they want and go to where they can get those prices.

Goodness, my posts and mails are always so long... I'm sorry ._.


TL;DR: be self sufficient OR look up crafters in your LS, and if you don't have that option, search the server. Don't pay exorbitant fees on the wards when helpful people will craft your things for you if you exercise a little give and take ^_^ If you're on my server, look me up and I'll help you out!

I....they....but.....what!?

Is this concept really that hard to understand for these people? My brain is hurting from this thread, not because of the math, but because people seem to really not understand it. I am at a loss...

"If I have 100mil now and I don't have 100mil in ARR, then SE is taking my hard earned gil."

No. No they are not.

1,000,000 gil in ARR is EQUAL IN VALUE to 100,000,000 in 1.0. You are losing nothing. An item that cost 99 Million in 1.0 (which you could afford) will cost 9 million in ARR (which *GASP* you can still afford!).

The ONLY hiccup in this entire system is when ARR first launches and ignorant, stupid players still try to sell things at 1.0 price, which won't happen for long at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mbncd

TL;DR: be self sufficient OR look up crafters in your LS, and if you don't have that option, search the server. Don't pay exorbitant fees on the wards when helpful people will craft your things for you if you exercise a little give and take ^_^ If you're on my server, look me up and I'll help you out!

---

Yeah I can dig it, 3 of my lalafell linkshell mates / friends of mine have had all fo their crafts capped for some time now and I practically never buy items from teh wards for that matter. But a lof of people, like a previous poster mentioned, esort to buying those overinflated npc prices for low lvl gear cus the ward prices are even more expensive and for that matter if they are new to the game they don't have as many connections as you and I and may find it more dificult to find a friendly crafter. Otherwise, that's some solid advice.

Alerith... just stop...

Whoever doesn't get it by now are better off not getting it and hopefully quitting.

However your over-simplified explanation is gonna awaken the group of people who take the 10% thing way too literally and exact when it comes to market wards and argue for no apparent reason that MW prices won't drop to exactly 10% of what they are now.

Amazing how some people read the op and seriously face roll their keyboard just for the sake of replying.
For the love of all that is Holy, if you try to be smart at least try to read what people are actually saying.

If you think it wont have any affect you will be in for a surprise, who cares about NPC's the market is player controlled.

Let's see if your 5 mill will be worth just as much as your 500k in ARR in the long run, I have to see the first game actually to be able to get that done.

As long as the market is player controlled this wont take long I'm pretty sure of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illusion

Amazing how some people read the op and seriously face roll their keyboard just for the sake of replying.
For the love of all that is Holy, if you try to be smart at least try to read what people are actually saying.

If you think it wont have any affect you will be in for a surprise, who cares about NPC's the market is player controlled.

Let's see if your 5 mill will be worth just as much as your 500k in ARR in the long run, I have to see the first game actually to be able to get that done.

As long as the market is player controlled this wont take long I'm pretty sure of that.

---

I read face roll, and in my head I was doing a barrel roll.

If the market wasn't player controlled the change would be appropriated instantly :P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PandaTaru

people won't sell at the same price they are now, but it's completely naive to think the price of most items will drop to 1/10 of what they sell now. At best they'll sell for 1/5 but more realistically speaking 1/3 of what they sell now. It's even more naive to think that the same people encouraging this measure won't be the one overpricing, and/or buying overpriced items. Thinking that all the leathers and hides and junk items will go from 4000gil to 400gil is kidding yourself.

---

Oh no, I will have to buy my raptor hides at 1/5 of its current value because people are overpricing !!!

Oh wait, I can sell my gigantoad skin at 1/5 of its current value because people are overpricing !!!

Could it be that 2.0 pricing reducing by 10%, 20% or 35% doesn't have any effect since my shit will sell at the same rate that the shit I'll buy ?!?!

(trying to adopt the same attitude)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illusion

Amazing how some people read the op and seriously face roll their keyboard just for the sake of replying.
For the love of all that is Holy, if you try to be smart at least try to read what people are actually saying.

If you think it wont have any affect you will be in for a surprise, who cares about NPC's the market is player controlled.

Let's see if your 5 mill will be worth just as much as your 500k in ARR in the long run, I have to see the first game actually to be able to get that done.

As long as the market is player controlled this wont take long I'm pretty sure of that.

---

^ this.

Considering when new gear comes out and ppl craft it and the market price is 20m just for an NQ well then this wont last long lol. A lot of ppl will have to figure out the prices for everything they sell all over again. For a while nobody will know the value of anything before they put it up in the wards/AH. I even think the wards/AH will be empty for a while, either that or it'll take a couple of days before people figure, and correct their prices. I expect to see prices all over the place for w/e kind of gear there is out there. Well unless we all just look at the gear we have remember the old prices for it then divide that price by 10 and put it up for that much.

But still considering there will prolly be so many new pieces of gear sets, and new weapons and a bunch of new things that ARR will introduce (maybe even new ores to obtain), there will still be some confusion and of course if ppl only have 4 mil and something is up for 2 mil i'm pretty sure a lot of us will say, "No way i'm paying that much!" :(.

I don't like that SE is doing things this way but oh well ill learn to live with it and it aint gonna kill me lol, i'm just gonna have to farm for a while to get some gil back x.x. Still 1/10 is a little much lol i would think maybe 3/10 or even 4/10 was ok for OUR gil but OK SE :/.

You know, after reading this thread all I can think back on is the overwhelming vote in the yes column to "Will you support radical changes to the game world?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyra

Only got 27 mil and have been trying to think of a way to make some money from this. The only way I could think of is make 3 million characters and put 9 gil on each character, that way I keep all 27 million presuming that if you have less than 10 gil on a character its not just wiped completly. So it is possible to keep it all :P

---

Pure genius, brb doing this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Pure genius, brb doing this.

---

LOL ikr! totally sounds like the best way to go! XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Pure genius, brb doing this.

---

Joke ?


Spreading it out:
100 gil / 25 characters = 4 gil
25 characters * 4 gil * 1/10 = 10 gil

Not spreading it out:
100 gil * 1/10 = 10 gil


Spreading it out:
Gil / Characters = GilPerCharacter
Characters *(GilPerCharacter * 1/10) = Left over
Not spreading it out:
Gil * 1/10 = Left over

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

Yeah I can dig it, 3 of my lalafell linkshell mates / friends of mine have had all fo their crafts capped for some time now and I practically never buy items from teh wards for that matter. But a lof of people, like a previous poster mentioned, esort to buying those overinflated npc prices for low lvl gear cus the ward prices are even more expensive and for that matter if they are new to the game they don't have as many connections as you and I and may find it more dificult to find a friendly crafter. Otherwise, that's some solid advice.

---

Even I, a person who loves to craft, outfit all of my mules with hempen gear bought directly from the NPC's because it's cheaper than making it. I'm hoping that the redenomination will make that a stronger option for new players. Also, I suspect most really new players will either go to a fresh starting brand new world with other newbies, or they'll come to an established world where they already have contacts who will help them make more helpful contacts (*nudge nudge for everyone bringing in or even just meeting newbies* please hook them up with some crafter names to help them out!) so I'm hoping that that won't be too big an issue. Also, with such a huge emphasis on questing and so many quests already giving level 1-20 gear as quest rewards, I expect even more of that in 2.0.

As such, I'm not really to worried about the newbies in general, but more for the established players who already have some gil under their belt and might be tempted to fall for the hyper prices, thus blowing the value of such items in the ward wide open to highway robbery and delaying the eventual stabilisation of more reasonable and accessible prices down the line.

If people can think a little more about the long term and the effect their short term buying habits may have on the economy at large, I think that they'll realise that it's really better for everyone (except for the price gougers) if they take their business to more price appropriate servicemen/women.

On a side note, it might seem as though I'm anti-profit, but really I just like fair exchange and I think that that is best achieved with a friendly and respectful partnership, rather than one person taking advantage of another. Price gouging might be profitable in the short term, but it gives you a nasty reputation and discourages future business. Negotiating a fair deal, for both provider and buyer, on the other hand fosters trust and encourages repeat business, as well as positive word of mouth to others that may bring their business to you. Lastly, one person's business practices are often generalised over a group, and I'd much rather crafters be generalised as simple hard working but fair folk instead of money grubbers. That's just personal preference though ;P


TL;DR: Newbies should be OK, it's the people with money who have to be careful how they spend it for the betterment of the economy. I hope everyone will consider that when faced with overpricing, and that anyone bringing/meeting a newbie in an established world will help them form connections that will allow them to do the same.

I am amazed that so many people could see kyra's post and not know immediately that it was a joke...

But then I guess I am also amazed that this thread is still going...

There you have it... this thread is AMAZING.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mbncd

TL;DR: Newbies should be OK, it's the people with money who have to be careful how they spend it for the betterment of the economy. I hope everyone will consider that when faced with overpricing, and that anyone bringing/meeting a newbie in an established world will help them form connections that will allow them to do the same.

---

AKA, weapons crafted for relics aren't going to be worth 35mil anymore people.

I think the market will sort itself out though. People will have less money, and if things get listed for exorbitant prices, nobody will buy them. People will keep undercutting till someone finally decides that the item is worth x amount and that will set a baseline.

Heh, poor bastards. I slipped Louie 1m and in exchange he is going to send my money forward in time. So after the re-denomination I will be the wealthiest person in ARR!

I understand that everyone will still have exactly the same relative wealth, but it's still pointless. There are many, many (too many) people that don't understand and this does nothing except freak them out, because they think they are 90% poorer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikki

Can we get clarification on what this means for people with more than 99,999,999 gil?

---

You know someone with 99999999 gil? even if you do, why do you care?? WTH has that much gil & what would be the purpose(unless it's for RMT)

Just though to throw that out there! (toodles)

A better song for this thread:
http://youtu.be/NPowA37yuY8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Did you not read the part where they said single digit gil items would be destroyed? I would assume that applies to players with single digit amounts of gil as well, it will be wiped. There is no way around it. Your gil is getting reduced by 90%.

---

Obviously my post was not serious, im not going to be making 3 million characters now am I lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

your 3 chars with 9m each will turn into 3 chars with 900k each :/

---

I dont know what your talking about, i never mentioned splitting gil between 3 characters, what would be the point.

For those who are afraid of prices remaining at 1.0 levels, this is likely the scenario:

Gillionaire hoards crafting materials in order to amass profit come 2.0

Gillionaire, upon 2.0 release, sets the "standard" prices as they were in 1.0 or higher

New player #1 enters the game. Sadly he's a bit new, so he thinks market prices are the true value of an item

New player #1 pays the current market rate, providing Gillionaire a sizeable profit (in terms of constant currency).

Old Player #1, who was poor in 1.0, wants to make a quick sell for spending gil. He undercuts drastically to make a sell
Old Player's #2-15 follow suit, rapidly undercutting to ensure they get a sale.

New player #2 is a cheap hoarder, and decides to farm her own materials. Later she sells any excess at a reduced rate.

Now at this point, the Gillionaire has a few options. He can spend a large amount of capital buying out the market, and artificially setting his price higher, although that is unlikely in a game of infinite resources. There are always players mining, farming, gathering, crafting etc. In order to keep a sale history free of undercut sales, he'd need to invest a solid amount of time (going to say 8 hours-ish for fast moving items, 1-2 for rarely sold goods) watching the wards/AH and sniping those undercut items. This is risky because he stands to lose (or merely break even, which can be hell for an investor in an MMO) if he fails to corner the market.

The biggest obstacle the Gillionaire has is the improved ward/auction house. If it's a truly open system (ie no caps on amount of retainers, allowing the entire population to sell their goods at any given time), then that would make it all the much harder for any single player to corner the market. Right now with the horrible market ward system, sellers have almost free reign except for the random undercutter or two that just BARELY found a spot in the Ul'dah wards.

Granted, the first few weeks will be ugly as people jockey for market dominance, but eventually the playing field will be leveled.

*Edit* Now this is only for commodities. However, those account for the grand majority of trading on any given day. For example, gryphon hide sales dwarf explorer's gorget sales probably on a magnitude of at least 30 to 1 on a trading day. For high level instance drops that can be sold, those will simply follow the supply and demand curve, it'll just be a slower moving dip in price (bleeding edge players will be able to control the market at first, after a few months the price should drop significantly as more players are able to do the content/the items lose their value in comparison to other options).

I'm broke!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illusion

If you think it wont have any affect you will be in for a surprise, who cares about NPC's the market is player controlled.

---

As a player, with your income slashed by 90%, your current gil slashed by 90%, your NPC expenditures slashed by 90%, the price you are willing to sell your wares and services for will be changed by ??%. Is there a variable I'm missing here?

Let's put the shoe on the other foot, shall we? Let's say when ARR launches, everyone GETS 10x their current gil, quests and mobs drop 10x more gil, NPCs charge 10x as much gil. Would you then be arguing that players won't be smart enough to raise the prices on their wares and services by roughly 10x?

Looking at some of the replies on this thread, it's disgustingly obvious that there will be some people who won't catch on. They just don't have the mental faculties to understand that all wealth is relative, and if the government suddenly made everyone in the world millioinaires, being a millionaire would mean nothing and money would be carted around in wheelbarrows just to do grocery shopping. The proposed gil changes strengthen the importance of gil in the game economy while minimizing its impact. Yes, there will be idiots. There are always idiots. Heck, I'm sure even some smart people will leave their prices high just to test the waters and see if anyone bites. But given enough time and trial-and-error, things will stabilize.

Arguing the economy is player controlled, then assuming it's gonna suck doesn't place much faith in your fellow players.

Edit: Just so you know, Illusion, I'm not really trying to reply to your post specifically, I'm just using your quote as a jumping-off point to target about half the other posts in this thread. The "Player-run-economy" thing is a fantastic observation, and is what inspired me to jump into the conversation. I agree with much of what you say.

under cut everything! ( set the trend in history of how much it is ).....man that sounds soo bad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orophin

AKA, weapons crafted for relics aren't going to be worth 35mil anymore people.

I think the market will sort itself out though. People will have less money, and if things get listed for exorbitant prices, nobody will buy them. People will keep undercutting till someone finally decides that the item is worth x amount and that will set a baseline.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

How can people be worried that players will continue to sell items at X price once 2.0 arrives, when they're actually selling stuff themselves in this 99% player driven economy ...

If the the market stays higher than 10% of what the current prices are, then they'll profit too ...

---

It is for this reason that everything i gather and craft will be stored on my retainer until 2.0 and not be sold in this version from now on..

Making the rich richer and the poor...well...completely broke. Thanks SE! Nice looking out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

Making the rich richer and the poor...well...completely broke. Thanks SE! Nice looking out!

---

Mmmhmm mmmhhhm. Now that you've just read the announcement, let it sink in.

Good? Yeah, now you realize that nothing is being lost, just translated into less digits. Feel silly now, don't you? Hahaha, don't worry, happens to us all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

Mmmhmm mmmhhhm. Now that you've just read the announcement, let it sink in.

Good? Yeah, now you realize that nothing is being lost, just translated into less digits. Feel silly now, don't you? Hahaha, don't worry, happens to us all.

---

Oh no, plenty is being lost. Going from 2mil to 200k? Items are going to stay in the mils for a long time and now, thanks to the BRILLIANCE of SE, I'm a lot further from buying any of them. There is NO REASON to cut everyone's gil. NONE, ZIP, NADA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

Oh no, plenty is being lost. Going from 2mil to 200k? Items are going to stay in the mils for a long time and now, thanks to the BRILLIANCE of SE, I'm a lot further from buying any of them. There is NO REASON to cut everyone's gil. NONE, ZIP, NADA.

---

I see, so it hasn't sunk in yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurai

It is for this reason that everything i gather and craft will be stored on my retainer until 2.0 and not be sold in this version from now on..

---

Yeah, that's what I'll do too. Even if prices have doubled since this announcement and Atomos, I still believe stuff will be worth more than 20% of their old price (or 10% of their recent new inflated price) come 2.0.

Poor people (which i'm not far of being) could just gather / farm stuff and sit on it instead of posting illogical texts here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

I see, so it hasn't sunk in yet.

---

There's nothing to sink in. Ward prices will be the same for a while. I'll be at much much less gil than I have now while the people who have over 100mil will still be able to afford just about anything. Yeah...so, instead of being a giant troll, how about you let it sink in that anyone under 100mil is getting the shaft and it's SE's fault.