(spoilers in that post)
At first I had no problems with Wuk Lamat. I play in french, so the whole drama about the voice actor and how her VA sounds didn't affect me at all and had no strong feeling one way or the other about her.
During the first half of the msq, she kinda grew on me. The story was lacking stakes, and some of the plotlines had outright bad writing, but I liked how she grew to realise how limited her view were. At the crowning ceremony, I liked her. Not the best character, but at least we got something different from a sharlayan scholar.
Then came the attack on Tuliyollal. I was annoyed by the fact we did not fight Zoraal Ja, because it was meant for Wuk Lamat, while there was story element to explain why he would survive an encounter with us. I felt frustrated.
This is the point where I felt the whole "let's understand each other", "protect the smile and happiness" was wearing thin. It can be a plot point or an ideal for a character, but the moment voice it more than a few times, it becomes ridiculous. It's something really hard to play with, and there is a certain SE/Disney series that achieve to say the most cheesy and corny lines once in a while and make it work, but the FFXIV team does not. Partially because of the tone of the whole game : it's hard to pull that out in a world that build such a grounded political background. It just feels out of place, even disconnected from reality.
It's also the point where I began to feels that she was pushed on me a little too much. As much as it made sense for her to be there with the whole Zoraal Ja thing, at this point I felt we should share the spotlight, like we did with Ysayle and Estinien, or Hien (I would say Lyse too, but I always felt Lyse storyline didn't click and ended being wasted potential). I didn't dislike her, but let me breathe and have my own thing (I'm pretty sure that with the same story for WL, but something in parallel for the WoL, reception of Wuk Lamat would have been better).
The Zoraal Ja fight felt like a good place to end her storyline, and switch back to us. And that's what it felt in the last zone. She was still there, it made sense she was the one that talked the most with sphene, since we are a mute character, yet with the story shifting toward scions teritorry with shard travel and resolving Krile and Erenville storylines, I felt it was going the right way.
Then came the last trial. Sphene lose her humanity, the azem symbol appears on the key, everyone but you get pushed out. It's final confrontation. It's YOUR time at least... But nope, it had to be about Wuk Lamat. She could have appeared after the fight, Sphene could have her last conscious moment after defeating her mindless version, but no, they had to push her down her throat a last time. That's where it broke for me. They nearly achieved to make me bare with her, despite wishing more room to breathe, but that final nudge was too much. Honestly, I don't hate her character, but I don't want her to ever go on an "adventure" with us ever again. For a game praised for making you feel everything you did mattered during EW vanilla, they made a lot of effort to tell you don't matter in the EW patches and in DT.
Fun fact : I don't know what it exactly say in the english version (Once again, I play in french), but if you talk to Raha just before the last dungeon, he tells you a line that ends with "After all, this is your story" (the emphasis on "your" is in the game). And that has to either the less aware line of the whole expension or the biggest troll ever.
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07-03-2024, 10:42 AMCNitsah
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07-03-2024, 10:53 AMAnimaAnimus
Finally done. And Mrs. White said it best.
I hated her so much... it it the it fla flame, flames. Flames, on the sides of my face -
07-03-2024, 11:17 AMKanotoushi
For me, Wuk Lamat is bland, and boring but even worse, she's not apt to rule anything! Why am I supposed to root for her, and help her?
Which by the way, until this point has been just standing aside, nodding, and smiling. I don't think I've seen my boy with such a stupid smile on his face so much in all the previous content combined
I didn't know them at the time, and even so, helping Gaius' children in The Sorrow of Werlyt Quests got me more invested than anything in Dawntrail so far, even if I have to do duties as another class (which I hate), and that was an optional side quest
After leaving my previous mmo I should have known better than pre-order anything -
07-03-2024, 11:29 AMFluxating
After 5 days of slowing chipping away at the MSQ, I finally caved and starting skipping cutscenes and mashing through dialog for the first time. This "story" was so awful and I just wanted it to end.
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07-03-2024, 11:44 AMFlowerMilk
I'm really hoping and crossing my fingers that at some point we get to go somewhere else and leave Wuk Lamat behind. If someone from Tuliyollal has to join us for some reason, I would rather it be Koana. Spoilers:
It really irked me when we needed to go investigate the robot dudes that Koana was the one chosen to stay behind and reassure the people which he's totally super good at based on the story beforehand, and Wuk Lamat was the one chosen to go investigate because she's going to fight her robot lizard brother, even though the entire time she's like "I have no idea how any of this works" and the whole time I'm thinking "wtf are you even doing here then? why is Koana not here instead???"
Also when people were suggesting that the writers move away from the Scions (not me), you were so so wrong. Every time the Scions show up I am audibly saying to myself "oh thank god", and every time Wuk Lamat suggests we split up and I join her I am in pain. Please god just let me adventure with the Scions again, this is suffering. Whoever suggested it I hope steps on many Legos. I have genuinely never disliked any character in this game at all until now. -
07-03-2024, 11:58 AMCottonCHonestly. At this point I think that Dawntrail, considering that we want to keep the main story points as is would be much better expansion if there was no Dawnservant trial. Just WoL visiting new lands since we earned some time to rest and see things and we bump into "Golden City" when following in the footsteps of the Dawnservant. Is there anything in this story that requires Wuk Lamat? Honestly no. She has no purpose whatsoever. No problem presented within the story makes her a irreplaceable character - and yet, she is in 95% of the story, no matter if she is wanted, needed or if the thing concerns her at all. If anything our journey could have been chill hanging out with Krile and Erenville until they get mixed up into affairs of exotic Turall by accident "since troubles always seems to find WoL" and both Krile and Erenville are so much more compelling characters with space for development - yet they get a footnote compared to Wuk Lamat the vampire sucking all of the joy from anything that may have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerMilk
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07-03-2024, 12:01 PMFluxatingThe whole time during the rite of ascension I wanted to switch sides to join Koana. Social awkwardness aside, he was clearly the better candidate over wuk lamat, and even got character development as a bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerMilk
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07-03-2024, 12:07 PMFlowerMilkYeah the story was built up to involve Krile a lot more, and we've known her for a lot longer. I am very sad that it is so Wuk Lamat heavy instead, extremely disappointed. I would not have minded if we helped Wuk Lamat from the beginning, but once sheQuote:
Originally Posted by CottonC
becomes the Dawnservant and finds the Golden City, she should stay back and protect her people while the Scions go investigate and fight her brother because we (Scions/WoL) are undoubtedly way better equipped to handle it over her. And then it should shift to a Krile heavy story. Every time Wuk Lamat is on my screen after she became Dawnservant I'm constantly like "Why are you here? Why isn't this more focused on Krile?". We are literally investigating where Krile came from and for some reason Wuk Lamat is here constantly in the spotlight to tell us all about how she doesn't understand anything that is going. Please just go away already! -
07-03-2024, 12:08 PMUndeadfire"The Garleans were Simpletons"Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerMilk
Gives time for the city to prepare defences. You expect for an invasion to have 10x the military size, not 1 cruiser and a couple transports in a big city and prevent them having means of fighting back. In American Texas town lose to a couple cowboys and Estinien very quickly, was the fastest loss in the west.
For something extremely advanced and alien like, you expect them to put your friends in danger, not out right send them all to the junkyard in less than 10 mins. I can understand Scions and Bakool Ja Ja, but everyone winning so easily is ridiculous. -
07-03-2024, 12:10 PMCosmoBabyloniaMy friend, it's much worse. The other guy who knows, or has a rough idea about the float, was in the VanuVanu village all this time. Did he just not say anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaniel
Or was it like this?
"We got to test some new challengers soon, hey you there don't help us to fix the issue. I'm going to pretend to not know and you are going to pretend to not know, and we will starve for a bit since the crops have to fail in order to start the challenge". -
07-03-2024, 12:26 PMPyro2hell3
my main is with Wuk Lamat is i've been so overexposed to her that i just respond with " great your done can I go now?" nothing she does matters to me anymore
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07-03-2024, 12:29 PMHyoMinPark
I will definitely come back and read this thread and OP’s spoiler thread once I finish the MSQ. I’m FINALLY going into the level 99 MSQ, and I am still struggling to get through all of this.
I will say more once I complete it—but I am just so sick of this character and how mine has to CONSTANTLY stand behind her. Even the dialogue options I’m given, I’m rarely allowed to contest her or just stay silent with the staple “…” response. It is so grating on my nerves; and her constantly being shoved down my throat is one reason I dislike her.
I didn’t like Lyse in SB, but my dislike of Wuk Lamat far surpasses any dislike I had of Lyse. I’d rather be adventuring with her again. -
07-03-2024, 01:53 PMLyndina
Can we have Lyse back? Because in the end i struggled to deal with wuk lamat. Everything had to resolve around her. I really got no problems with her Voice Actor and feel sorry that her performance was ruined with this sub par plot that focuses 100 percent on her. I cant even remember one quest where she wasnt involved. On the other hand..im not a native english speaker that plays with the english dub...so count me guilty if her performance lacks. For me it was okayish. Like so many here iat some point i just skipepd through her text. The last trial was the breaking point for me and i was glad the story was over. Like...we have this awesome fight, finally WoL time...and you ruined it with Wuk jumping in because she is the main character. Please Yoshi, for the sake of your playerbase..sideline Wuk and focus on something else again. Was on the verge of quitting this really good game after that trial.
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07-03-2024, 02:23 PMLynaval
Part of playerbase: "I wish we could get rid of the scions, they overstayed their welcome. "I can't stand the scions anymore, can we get a new character ?"
Enter Wuk Lamat: "Can we please get rid of this character, I want the scions back".
Be careful what you wish for...... -
07-03-2024, 02:30 PMGarolymar
Could you imagine how bad this expansion would be if none of the scions were there at all, and it was just 100% Wuk Lamat? No reprieve just endless annoying jokes and undeserved "BELIEVE IT" attitude.
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07-03-2024, 02:55 PMLieri
Part of this is because SE is so adamant in making Wuk Lamat look naive, clumsy, and weak as her base traits. You know what they said first impression matters. Other characters, even Lyse, had weaknesses but we can agree they're at least strong and not a cry baby.
And in XIV we are used to strong characters as well. What were they thinking? They made the character worse than its supossed to be by putting unecesarry cutscenes - sea sick, more sea sick, almost went into bankruptcy by a merchant, getting kidnapped by a trash mob, and bawling her eyes out. Make it stahp! We get it. We like funny scenes but keep doing it and all will lose its comedic value. -
07-03-2024, 03:00 PMShaedhenTo be fair, it wouldn't change much, all the scions are just cardboard cutouts in the world of Wuk Lamat during 95% of DT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garolymar
If anything, it would make a lot of the cutscenes at little bit less awkward. -
07-03-2024, 03:06 PMfioravictorineOh yeah, the Scions all felt like ChatGPT bots spewing random positivity quotes the whole expansion. Like what are they even there for? They had no personality whatsoeverQuote:
Originally Posted by Shaedhen
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07-03-2024, 03:15 PMGodModule
I'm personally tired of having to always side with these damn hippies. First the Scions, now Wuk Lamat. Why can't I support the First Promise? I don't give a shit about Wuk Lamat
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07-03-2024, 03:15 PMVoidmage
Just finished the 97 dungeon now and while I actually didn‘t mind Wuk Lamat initially and probably like her more then most people even I am starting to despair.
She is in ever single cutscene always with my character. Give me some room already girl.
Did Square not play this story at all?
Wuk Lamar is not even a terrible character but there is a line how much you can force an mpg in the spotlight.
It enforced everything bad with her.
While I don‘t think she is a Mary sue she actually borders on it.
Why exactly are all the scions fawning over her the entire time?
Where is Alisaes sass and Kriles bantering with Alphinaud? No it’s always Wuk Lamat and my character following her like a shell shocked war veteran.
When Graha Tia and Y‘shtola came back I was so happy to spend time with them and I HATE Graha.
When I got into the Wild West zone I was so happy only to be forced back to her not even a level later.
I actually like the story itself but I think it suffers from overexposure of this new NPC (or should I say MC?)
It’s like someone of the devs inserted their Headcanon MC into the story and if that is how the story will be from now on I don‘t think I will stay with future expansions.
I hope square addresses the loud negative feedback. I really don‘t know what they were thinking here.
I already heard bad things about the last trial and I shudder to go there tbh.
Give me Lyse back please!
I‘ll be honest. The most fun this time for me are the dungeons. Have a blast with them so here I have to give the Devs my honest compliments. -
07-03-2024, 03:27 PMXyliraThe zone was like a breath of fresh air. And yet despite that, the writers still couldn't help but force a MacGuffin into the zone story arc that's related directly to her. There was no good reason for it, but they did it anyway. It's like the writers are obsessed with the character and had to have her permeate every facet of the expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmage
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07-03-2024, 03:32 PMGrizzlyTank
Pray return to the Wuk Lamat!
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07-03-2024, 03:33 PMVoidmageShe is the creators pet trope in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylira
It’s crazy. At some points the good writing shines through.
That two headed dude who was an ass the entire time to us? I actually liked his development, I actually really love him now.
Erenville was also great and the golden city mystery intriguing (there should have been more time with that tbh).
Wuk Lamat suffers terribly from writers favourism and sadly that’s not even her fault and I feel sorry for her. -
07-03-2024, 03:40 PMShaedhenMaybe more than anything else, it's that part that was the final straw for me. Compared to everything before and after it might seems like a small thing, but I believe it might be the prime example and proof that the writer didn't care for anyone but Wuk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylira
I am honestly baffled that at no point during beta-testing the msq someone just raised a hand and simply asked : "Hey look, isn't a bit too much ?" -
07-03-2024, 03:48 PMlolnotacatQuote:
Originally Posted by Voidmage
I wanna like Bakool Ja Ja so much, but the way he acted up until the last part of the succession ceremony is unforgivable. And I don't mean just his actions. I mean the way he was written. He was a cackling idiot who didn't seem to have a hint of remorse or introspection (aside from one or two very quick and easily missed moments) for his actions and seemed to revel in being evil for the sake of it. I know it's not great to have two stoic antagonists, but that's what he needed to be. His character should've shown hints remorse for everything he did, but ultimately, he did was what he believed was best for his people. It could of been his sycophant lackey that was the cackling menace instead of him. Instead of seeing a tragic antagonist who was turned by Wuk Lamat's talk no jutsu, all I see is the laughing moron clearly enjoyed setting Valigarmanda free. -
07-03-2024, 04:02 PMBright-Flower
Personally I didn't mind her. Not to say the writing was perfect. The sea sickness thing was over played, but not the only thing to get that treatment. (Like the hrothgar guy who over reacts and offers up his life but then immediately chills out when told it's not a big deal. Funny the first time they did that joke, not so much the fourth.) And I can get why some people have an issue with her. She is more of a singular main protagonist than we normally get in just one character, and the scions are mostly in a more supporting role now after having been more in the spotlight in SHB/EW. I can understand how that combination may be jarring for some people. Endwalker was our story. Dawntrail is Wuk Lamat's.
Wuk Lamat's not my favorite character in the game, but I enjoyed her arc well enough. And unlike Lyse it didn't feel rushed for me when she came into a position of leadership. It's almost like looking at an alternate version of Stormblood without the far east stuff, where we'd have had time to actually get to know different factions of the resistance and cultures in Gyr Abania better and have Lyse learn from them and grow to EARN a position as resistance leader rather than the current leader awkwardly saying she'll make a fine leader then dying after spending half the expansion on the other side of the world. To me, Wuk is more or less Lyse done better.
I do think that focus on her should have been dialed back 'a bit' for a bit more focus on Krile and Erenvele throughout the expansion too, where it feels like their arcs are seeded earlier but only really start to bloom in the later bits. And many of the scions (save Krile) feel kind of tacked on and like they didn't really need to be here. But I like Wuk Lamat for the most part.
For Bakool Ja Ja, while I do like the development he gets, it's kind of hard to just overlook him releasing Valigarmanda. This was a step too far for how easily his redemption comes. There is lip service paid to the idea of him needing to pay for his crimes despite his change of heart toward the end, but this never comes. Releasing Valigarmanda should have been a 'leaning into full on villainy' moment or he shouldn't have been directly responsible for it. The fact that the people involved in the tests keep taking him seriously as a claimant afterwards and chide Wuk Lamat for being aggressive towards him is ridiculous, this should have gotten him immediately disqualified. -
07-03-2024, 04:04 PMRegis_ParanQuote:
Originally Posted by Garolymar
Then I would have skipped 100% of the story, instead of "just" the parts when she's talking.
I'm in the 5th zone now. I almost wept with joy that I got spend 1 min with
G'raha
alone. Of course, moment later with was back to "normal", but at this point I'll take every second of not being handcuffed to WL.
Two more zones, I can do this, I finish this cursed story... -
07-03-2024, 04:16 PMMalthirO my dear friend, brace yourself, for it's about to get much worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Regis_Paran
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07-03-2024, 04:19 PMLittleArrowI was literally celebrating, laughing / smiling and cheering at my screen when we got into the western town. I was like, WOO the expansion is going to start getting good! It's ok that the first half was Wuk if I'm finally done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
...Then the story continued and got worse... and worse.. and absolutely shamefully bad. I miss the western town... -
07-03-2024, 04:22 PMTsumdereThis was the only point in the story where I felt like I was given what I was promised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmage
I wanted a low stakes adventure. Taking back a trinket from bandits and fixing a train are the kind of low stakes I was expecting. Our only companion was an endearing character with a good-head on his shoulders.
Then we return to Wuk Lamat and have to go save the world from evil robots. And we have to listen to her constantly say the same lines over and over. And have her butt into everything we did. And mow over every single other character and their development.
What a vacation right?
Erenville should have been the main character and his search for the city of gold should have been the main plot. -
07-03-2024, 04:34 PMRegis_ParanQuote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
Are they going to clone her and I'll have to be hancuffed to TWO Wuk Lamats?...
By this point I wouldn't even be surprised... -
07-03-2024, 04:53 PMRurisPray return Wuk Lamat!Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank
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07-03-2024, 05:20 PMShaedhenShhhhQuote:
Originally Posted by Regis_Paran
Don't give them ideas now ! -
07-03-2024, 05:21 PMVoidmageI kinda agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lolnotacat
I like his development and his story. I think it shows in retrospect that he was deperate
The problem is more that the reason behind it (the history of his people) was badly written.
The concept is great but it was resolved too fast.
The story says that he has to answer fro his crimes but it doesn‘t but at least he actually has character flaws.
In my opinion it would have been better if they cut some of the story with Wuk Lamat and gave it to him.
Made it so we had some time with him and help him understand.
In my honest opinion. He would have made a better central figure then Wuk Lamat in character development and finally becoming dawnservant with our understanding and helping him along the way. He has character flaws that are actual flaws and not just tropes make a character seem cute. -
07-03-2024, 05:44 PMOgruMogru
I'm at the end of my tether I feel so utterly bereft. I've been trying to hard to see positives and I still have the last zone to do but my patience is just wearing so thin. I cannot believe how bad this expac story is, it feels like a bad dream. The whole thing is just entirely ruined. I can't believe they dropped the ball and shit the bed this badly. I have had 2 nice hours in the western town out of this entire miserable experience.
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07-03-2024, 05:45 PMMalthirI can tell you, but it's a massive spoiler, I shall hide it behind the click of a buttonQuote:
Originally Posted by Regis_Paran
Warning Do not press the button below unless you want the end spoiled. Warning
The last zone we're with Wuk she's literally ever present, at one point the MSQ makes us take her on a shopping trip, I kid you not. Then at the final crescendo of the story we are going one on one with the boss and as the fight end, in what I'm describing as getting Wuk'd. Wuk breaks down the walls of Reality/Containment comes flying in last shots the boss then does all the talking in the final cutscene. -
07-03-2024, 05:45 PMlolnotacatI generally agree. He still needed re-characterization to be likable I think, but he could've made a more interesting Dawnservant. Between the indomitable first promise, and his siblings with legendary godslayers on their sides, Bakool Ja Ja could've been the desperate underdog. If he showed remorse but a desperate resolve for actually constantly being behind, releasing Valigarmanda could be more forgivable. Finally, after getting stomped by us and seeing we still did things the "right way" he slowly learns that might doesn't necessarily make right and his insecurities about being blessed start slipping through the cracks more and more, finally coming to us on his own when we get to the area with the last keystone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmage
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07-03-2024, 06:22 PMLittleArrowFor those that played GW1, Wuk is our much much worse version of Kormir. I actually liked Kormir and Lyse... I don't know how they could possibly write a character that is worse than some of the most maligned characters in the history of those two games.. but geez luiz did they do it in spades...Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthir
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07-03-2024, 06:24 PMTethan
Some data from discord
Link
Link
Quote:
WUKLAMAT lines=647 words=7065
SPHENE lines=254 words=3472
ERENVILLE lines=160 words=2042
BAKOOLJAJA lines=139 words=1792
KOANA lines=131 words=1822
CAHCIUA lines=122 words=1741
KRILE lines=118 words=1294
GULOOLJAJA lines=115 words=1560
ZORAALJA lines=109 words=1105
ALISAIE lines=87 words=896
GRAHATIA lines=62 words=922
OTIS lines=56 words=733
ALPHINAUD lines=47 words=548
VORPORLOR lines=40 words=515
KETENRAMM lines=39 words=484
GULOOLJA lines=39 words=226
ZEREELJA lines=36 words=435
THANCRED lines=35 words=429
HUNMURRUK lines=35 words=478
YSHTOLA lines=34 words=486
ROBOR lines=31 words=496
GURFURLUR lines=27 words=451
ZEKOWA lines=27 words=275
WIHUWTE lines=27 words=338
ALAYLA lines=27 words=348
SAREELJA lines=25 words=280
SHENZA lines=22 words=267
PEPOANE lines=22 words=270
KEMAKKA lines=21 words=204
WAWLIKA lines=19 words=306
NAMIKKA lines=18 words=225
ESTINIEN lines=15 words=163
SHALE lines=15 words=229
WUKEVU lines=14 words=266
URIANGER lines=12 words=192
ZURMURWUR lines=12 words=130
SOLUTIONNFIGHTER lines=10 words=107
Quote:
7.0
Wuk Lamat has 254% of Sphene's voice lines
Wuk Lamat has 404% of Erenville's voice lines
4.0
Lyse has 189% of Hien's voice lines
Lyse has 205% of Alphinaud's voice lines
(that includes Lyse's narration)
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07-03-2024, 06:32 PMLyndina
Judging by this comparison...yeah..Wuk Lamat was a self insert from the writer...100 percent