Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WoW

I would like to thank SE for taking down these annoying ads. PF was meant for raiders! don't taint it with your silly ads.

---

But again... if PF is made for game content.. Then why was the fisher who was looking for other fishers getting in trouble?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnakhaSilver

If PF was just for Raids, why does it even HAVE an Other section? Christ, this is why I dislike a specific subset of raiders who feel entitled to the game revolving around them.

---

It's for those who wish to practice their rotation with another player without being bound to a specific duty. smh it's like some of you don't even bother playing the game!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sevrin_Blaine

But again... if PF is made for game content.. Then why was the fisher who was looking for other fishers getting in trouble?

---

Not a raider, duh!

The GM didn't say that they were in trouble for spamming, for using inappropriate language, they said it was because they were using it for an rp ad.. and rp isn't considered to be 'content' in that particular GM's view

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riyshn

To be fair, there has actually been an issue on Aether lately of venues putting up multiple ads at the same time. Like, 3-7 of the exact same copy-paste ad up right next to eachother. That should probably be stopped.

---

That I do agree with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sevrin_Blaine

The GM didn't say that they were in trouble for spamming, for using inappropriate language, they said it was because they were using it for an rp ad.. and rp isn't considered to be 'content' in that particular GM's view

---

Don't feed the troll my guy. His name is "WoW" on an FFXIV forum.

Can someone explain the drama to me? As a new player I’m not familiar with what’s going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sevrin_Blaine

The GM didn't say that they were in trouble for spamming, for using inappropriate language, they said it was because they were using it for an rp ad.. and rp isn't considered to be 'content' in that particular GM's view

---

Well SE have validated the fact that rp is a way to play the game given they introduced a rp tag. So that GM...is wrong! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Can someone explain the drama to me? As a new player I’m not familiar with what’s going on.

---

Players make PF for RP advert.

GM believes PF is only for clearing content, and bans people for RP advert.

Also allowed other non-content things though, such as selling feet pics, and paying $200 to give someone your account info.

Players even got suspended over this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

Players make PF for RP advert.

GM believes PF is only for clearing content, and bans people for RP advert.

Also allowed other non-content things though, such as selling feet pics, and paying $200 to give someone your account info.

Players even got suspended over this.

---

That sounds crazy! I’m not a RPer myself but I wish you all the best of luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WoW

It's for those who wish to practice their rotation with another player without being bound to a specific duty. smh it's like some of you don't even bother playing the game!



Not a raider, duh!

---

I have never seen anyone advertising for this in the "Other" tab and trust me, I will look at the other tab when I'm bored (happens often) as there is usually something funny in there. "Other" tab has always been RP venue advertisements, FC recruitment advertisements, lonely <insert race> looking for a friend/wife/etc ads, feet pics and the occasional cute or sad comment. But practicing raiding rotations with other players? Never have seen that.

Well the Tab name says it for itself OTHER. So OTHER kinds of Parties

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Brothels are in the games story. So them being advertised is a non issue

---

Wrong.

There's a huge difference between the game mentioning that brothels exist for the purpose of narrative and actually running a brothel.

The game is not running a brothel where players can go for sex related services. Some players on the other hand are - and that's illegal in many countries.

If the ERP was an issue they cared about I'm honestly surprised it's taken them literally YEARS to do anything about it. Like what were they doing before?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Wrong.

There's a huge difference between the game mentioning that brothels exist for the purpose of narrative and actually running a brothel.

The game is not running a brothel where players can go for sex related services. Some players on the other hand are - and that's illegal in many countries.

---

I mean... have you seen the Beehive? They don't straight up say it, because 13+ rating, but even the most charitable view is that it's a strip club. That you go out of your way to get Kai-Shirr a job at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Wrong.

There's a huge difference between the game mentioning that brothels exist for the purpose of narrative and actually running a brothel.

The game is not running a brothel where players can go for sex related services. Some players on the other hand are - and that's illegal in many countries.

---

The beehive says hi. You know the strip club in Eulmore? And all of this is virtual. Its not real. Nothing even close to being illegal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Wrong.

There's a huge difference between the game mentioning that brothels exist for the purpose of narrative and actually running a brothel.

The game is not running a brothel where players can go for sex related services. Some players on the other hand are - and that's illegal in many countries.

---

Was the sexualization of a teenage girl “just part of the narrative” too, then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riyshn

I mean... have you seen the Beehive? They don't straight up say it, because 13+ rating, but it's basically a strip club. That you go out of your way to get Kai-Shirr a job at.

---

There is the big difference. PG tv implies that men and women go to bed together. R shows them kissing and maybe a bit of nudity. X shows all the bits. We're living in a PG "world", those jobs exist. It doesn't mean the full-out descriptions should be out in the open. Most of the venues don't do that out in the open...some of the tells that you get at them will. Then you have the 'active' trade for services. There's a line there, a pretty solid one at that. I'm sure that we're all wise enough to understand where it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

The beehive says hi. You know the strip club in Eulmore? And all of this is virtual. Its not real. Nothing even close to being illegal

---

The game gives you narrative of what the location is, it does not demonstrate it.

You do have clothed characters dancing and serving drinks, much like an ordinary bar.

There are no naked NPCs. There are no NPCs performing a striptease.

There are no NPCs performing sex acts.

If you're seeing those things happen when you're at the Beehive, that's in your head and your imagination at work. It's not something the game is doing.

What is legal where you live may not be legal other parts of the world. SE has to deal with the legal situation in all countries and principalities listed in their User Agreements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taytay

Was the sexualization of a teenage girl “just part of the narrative” too, then?

---

SE's mistake with E8 does not give you the right to do similar things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

The beehive says hi. You know the strip club in Eulmore? And all of this is virtual. Its not real. Nothing even close to being illegal

---

The beehive never explicitly states it's a strip club. In fact it heavily implies it's a dance club. SO yes, you're in fact in the wrong here. Brothels do in fact deserve banning if mentioned in public chat channels. Keep that to your own linkshells and out of public chat channels. That can and is getting you banned. Not having it, but advertising it in public chat channels which is against ToS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashemmi

There is the big difference. PG tv implies that men and women go to bed together. R shows them kissing and maybe a bit of nudity. X shows all the bits. We're living in a PG "world", those jobs exist. It doesn't mean the full-out descriptions should be out in the open. Most of the venues don't do that out in the open...some of the tells that you get at them will. Then you have the 'active' trade for services. There's a line there, a pretty solid one at that. I'm sure that we're all wise enough to understand where it is.

---

Yet none of it is against ToS from what me and many others are seeing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashemmi

R shows them kissing and maybe a bit of nudity.

---

Titanic was released in 1998 and has nudity AND kissing.

And is rated PG-13.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taytay

Titanic was released in 1998 and has nudity AND kissing.

And is rated PG-13.

---

And it stops there. Clearly, my annotation of ratings wasn't precisely complete. PG-13 is a stepping ground between PG and R.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yet none of it is against ToS from what me and many others are seeing.

---

Actually:

Terms of Service Section 10: Community Guidelines.

You must not use the Services to distribute any content that is obscene, pornographic, defamatory, hateful, or illegal, or that violates the intellectual property rights or other rights of any person or entity.


So yes, using party finder or /shout is indeed against Community Guidelines.

No idea where you guys seem to think ERP is not against community guidelines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0

Actually:

Terms of Service Section 10: Community Guidelines.

You must not use the Services to distribute any content that is obscene, pornographic, defamatory, hateful, or illegal, or that violates the intellectual property rights or other rights of any person or entity.


So yes, using party finder or /shout is indeed against Community Guidelines.

No idea where you guys seem to think ERP is not against community guidelines.

---

But where is it against the guidelines for a fisher to use PF to find other people to fish with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0

No idea where you guys seem to think ERP is not against community guidelines.

---

I think people are just shocked it's taken so long for anything to be done about it. Like why come down on it after 4+ years of this? I agree it's against the guidelines, but how... how did IT TAKE SO LONG!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HazyAssaulter

Hey all, there's been a development to this event. The player who made the GM report that caused all this has shared the details of the report:

https://i.redd.it/tfgo1uxc1cj61.png

---

Wow, what a self important bunch of nonesense. "It just keeps getting bigger!" Like if people do RP he doesn't like its some existential crisis. Don't get how people can be so obsessed with what other adults are doing for fun seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0

The beehive never explicitly states it's a strip club. In fact it heavily implies it's a dance club. SO yes, you're in fact in the wrong here. Brothels do in fact deserve banning if mentioned in public chat channels. Keep that to your own linkshells and out of public chat channels. That can and is getting you banned. Not having it, but advertising it in public chat channels which is against ToS.

---

There are literally pleasure barges with sex slaves. I do not know how everyone has missed the rdm job quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HazyAssaulter

Hey all, there's been a development to this event. The player who made the GM report that caused all this has shared the details of the report:

https://i.redd.it/tfgo1uxc1cj61.png

---

Sounds like someone got rejected and got bitter.

I've been disheartened by the amount of posts here denigrating the RP community. I'm heavily involved in that community. Some of the best people I've met in this game have stemmed from the RP community. It breaks my heart that so many of you would seek to ruin our community just because you don't engage in that type of play. Who made you judge and jury to tell us how to play a massive multiplayer online role playing game? Are you seriously suggesting that the only content out there is raiding? Raiding stresses me out personally, that's why I opt for the RP - I lose myself, reality is painful for some and they use it as an escape. If I didn't have my group of friends, I would be lonely - I'm already suffering from anxiety and depression before any of it. RP breathes life into me. Why do you seek to take that away from us? Why does what happens between 2 consenting adults bother you so much? What is it your business if a club advertises in OTHER, when you have your own section for Duty Completion. You know you can filter those out by clicking a button right? You know I'm right. But instead of acknowledging this simple truth, you CHOOSE to click OTHER because you're too lazy to click on "Trials" "High End Duty". You have an axe to grind. Plain and simple. (I double checked the functionality, advertisements to not show up under those tabs.) You choose OTHER and think to yourself "Wonder what these degenerates are up to today?" I personally hope that SE reprimands this GM and issues a massive apology to the RP Community. You shouldn't have to log on to FFXIV and fear for your account b/c you want to play the game a different way than someone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashemmi

And it stops there.

---

Does it though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0

Actually:

Terms of Service Section 10: Community Guidelines.

You must not use the Services to distribute any content that is obscene, pornographic, defamatory, hateful, or illegal, or that violates the intellectual property rights or other rights of any person or entity.


So yes, using party finder or /shout is indeed against Community Guidelines.

No idea where you guys seem to think ERP is not against community guidelines.

---

You could argue that ERP is against the guidelines... I'd even agree with you. I think that there should be other things that take priority over it, like selling clears or flat out RMT... But here's the thing. It isn't just ERP that was hit. Standard, vanilla RP venues were hit... Something Yoshi-P has flat out encouraged to be part of the game. A dude asking for company while fishing got hit. People got hit for stuff that shouldn't be an issue.

Good post OP, GMs really crosses the line

And No one gives a cent for horde of bots using hacks walking and teleporting

People will soon report others for even RP tag - because in theirs eyes is just for satanic vulgar purposes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AllieKitz

Wow, what a self important bunch of nonesense. "It just keeps getting bigger!" Like if people do RP he doesn't like its some existential crisis. Don't get how people can be so obsessed with what other adults are doing for fun seriously.

---

Ah I'm kind of on the fence on erp. While adults should be able to engage in it if they like, this game isn't rated only for adults. Minors also play this game so by engaging with erp they may be engaging in activity that isn't suitable for their age...yes yes this is the internet and adult entertainment is very easy to access, but there could be some legal ramifications if SE are seen to endorse activity that doesn't align with the age rating for the game. It's a very grey area that they should tread very carefully.

But of course there are people who think all rp is erp so then reports with the intent of stopping erp end up inhibiting players who aren't doing that at all. Maybe even some GMs share that opinion with some players...which may be why this whole thing got out of hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LisSquid

There are literally pleasure barges with sex slaves. I do not know how everyone has missed the rdm job quest.

---

Suggestion of adult entertainment isn't the same as a player actively engaging in it. Which is why some movies rated for teens have sex scenes even though in their country they may not yet be at the age of consent.

This is a great step forward in cleaning up party finder. Thank you GMs! It was getting bad to the point where it was looking like some trashy craigslist spinoff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taytay

Does it though?

---

Yes. :) This all used to be much easier when we as a community were a little quieter about certain styles of play. I don't have personal objections to things that SOMETIMES show up in PF, I can see where others would. My entire point is that there is a line, and from time to time it gets crossed. PF as a whole shouldn't suffer, but we should be a little more clean about what we put up there. There are children who play this game, and no method besides policy to block what's seen. What we present in 'public' should keep that in mind.

For real though, my heart goes out to the guy making a PF for a companion while fishing. I also used PF a couple times, hoping to get some gil from overmelding materia for others using the OTHER tab. Using the OTHER tab for RP or meeting other people hasn't been an issue for YEARS (and it was also fun to discover RP venues through it, whenever I fancied,) and unless if it was explicitly advertised as Erotic RP, it was very obviously not against the TOS to my knowledge.

"Run sellers advertising on Duty Roulette Tab" aside, what was the OTHER tab supposed to be used for, anyway? RPing also isn't functionally a party, but it's a gathering of people nonetheless. When it comes to legal issues or rules, I would have expected that the GM explained what was SPECIFICALLY wrong, but I see none of it. People have also been saying that the GM have private rules that players must adhere to -- which is even crazier to think about. How is anyone supposed to know what is allowed?

First off, as has been stated multiple times, this is about RP venues being targeted indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with ERP, brothels, lap dance, etc. None of this was brought up in the initial conversation that created this.

Secondly, FFXIV is rated T, not PG-13. PG-13 is for pre-teens with a strong encouragement that they be supervised by parents when watching. And, online interaction is not rated.

Thirdly, this is a global game, with servers and head offices in multiple countries. Japan itself has a massive industry in Love Hotels alone. Does the Japanese side of the game have similar RP venues to the North American? What laws take precedent? And do you honestly think anyone in a law enforcement setting (hi, I work in Enforcement) give the slightly care to people role playing lap dances on an online video game? Get over yourselves with the "it's illegal somewhere". Cool. It's not illegal everywhere. And at no point is legality actually coming into these specific situations.

Finally, the Section 10 is vague as hell. Again, Enforcement, degree in this stuff, actually have worked with a law office. "You must not use the Services to distribute any content that is obscene, pornographic, defamatory, hateful, or illegal, or that violates the intellectual property rights or other rights of any person or entity."

Distribute any content. Okay. Is a conversation content? Is an interaction content? Is using emotes and conversation to carry on a public scene that would most definitely be something one might observe in even a PG-13 movie content? What is content? First, you would have to argue that a role play interaction is content. Now, what about obscene? What is obscene? I can guarantee that this is subjective. Furthermore, something that would be obscene in visual media is highly unlikely to be considered as obscene in written form. What about pornographic. Displaying of female breasts might be considered pornographic. Although, several states have made it legal for women to go topless, so even that's not universal in North America. We cannot actually show nudity in FFXIV. Is saying "naked boobs" pornographic? I think not. "He spun his ding-a-ling like a meme of yesteryear". Again...highly doubt that's going to fly. Besides, those are the vastly rare situations. And when ERP does occur, it's a consensual choice between two people. It is not being distributed to the community.

You want to throw around legality? Well, that is how legality actually works. Lawyers tear theses things apart. And officers always think in terms of viability in court.

That's why Terms of Service are universal, and outlined by a private business that doesn't have to actually go to court to do anything with you if you do something it deems to go against said ToS. Legal support in various countries, as Yoshi P claims to have, is for much more serious offenses. ToS doesn't use legality. They use a banhammer.

Going to an 18+ venue, where the goal is simply to have an adult clientele, where there is literally nothing more than dancing and a bartender is not obscene, or pornographic, but it still wants an 18+ group. You know what else demands 18+? Voting. You can't say that advertising 18+ is inherently anything even questionable. And dear lord, even if it's two people consenting to erp who cares? It's those two people "risking" anything. I swear, the people that are against erp come off like they expect to be hogtied and forced into a rp orgy or something. You don't have to be into it, or even like it, but it's the oldest profession in the world. It's gonna endure.

But, again, not. the. point. The point is using the Party Finder to advertise any sort of social interaction that isn't content. Which... by that logic, erp isn't "content" and thus can't fall under section 10. I mean, based on Mr. GM W.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Suggestion of adult entertainment isn't the same as a player actively engaging in it.

---

Which is exactly what the brothel PF ads are. Suggestion. They weren't even half of the listings hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LisSquid

Which is exactly what the brothel PF ads are. Suggestion. They weren't even half of the listings hit.

---

Yes but these suggestions are giving players access to actively engage directly as a participant in adult entertainment. Movies don't do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Yes but these suggestions are giving players access to actively engage directly as a participant in adult entertainment. Movies don't do this.

---

You're not erping with the ad. You aren't getting frisky with a movie. You might go and get erp as you might get frisky with you s/o while watching a movie.