A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Yeah I am just a white knight or troll or someone's alt or whatever. OP speaks for every healer and the only people who disagree can only be crazy/baiting/one person.

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Do you want a snickers bar?

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Yes lv 1 healers are why it is so popular among people with i500 or even i535 raid weapons. And even though you can also start as BLM or SMN at lv 1, SCH and AST are more popular

https://files.catbox.moe/rutfta.jpeg

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You’re missing the point. Several of them in fact.

Then why are SCH and AST more popular than BLM and SMN, even though BLM and SMN can be accessed at lv 1, are arguably the most iconic jobs in final fantasy, and for BLM easy to play at a basic level. I guess this means all 3 caster jobs are as badly designed as each other?

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Yes lv 1 healers are why it is so popular among people with i500 or even i535 raid weapons. And even though you can also start as BLM or SMN at lv 1, SCH and AST are more popular

https://files.catbox.moe/rutfta.jpeg

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Hey, I'm one of those WHMs in that chart. :) Me with my fully complete relic.

I started playing WHM because a friend was trying it. Nothing to do with it starting at level 1. I was a BRD / DRG main at the time. If you look at my character profile you'll see that I've also played the other healers. As well as every other job for that matter, to various degrees.

I always end up staying with WHM in the end since I find it the most fun. Though I do really like ranged phy dps. I don't find trying to keep up a few dots at once to be fun, just tedious busy work. Ask anyone I've been in a party with. I dps as much as I can get away with, but the ideas I see players suggest about healers are always quite bad.

You may then say: "Why don't you come up with something then?" To which I'd respond, I don't have any good ideas either.

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Then why are SCH and AST more popular than BLM and SMN, even though BLM and SMN can be accessed at lv 1, are arguably the most iconic jobs in final fantasy, and for BLM easy to play at a basic level. I guess this means all 3 caster jobs are as badly designed as each other?

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Care to read the rest of my response?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

It's arguably one of the most iconic FF jobs ever.

It has the least emphasis on cooldowns relative to AST and SCH, therefore it's easier to play at a very basic level vs the others currently.

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I’ve always been of the impression that RDM is far easier to play relative to the other casters at the current level cap. Same for Dancer.

Do you actually want a discussion on this topic or do you just want a sarcastic mudslinging contest today? I’m happy to go with either tbh

I honestly don't understand what is wrong with what I said.

Are you saying they are not iconic? When I think of FF I think of White and Black mage, or summoning shiva or ifrit or bahamut

BLM has the least emphasis on cooldowns compared to RDM and SMN and any other dps, and its basic rotation of B3 B4 F3 F4--- is very easy to understand and execute. It's ogcds can be used whenever you have weave spots and don't affect your rotation at all. You don't even need to worry about what skills you put under leylines because it is a speed rather than damage buff. The only thing you can say that is hard is that it requires to not move, but so does WHM. I love this job because of how simple and easy it is

RDM has several cooldowns that you need to think about, for example having a melee portion, manafication needs to consider how much mana you have and putting you into melee combo, or displacement/corps-a-corps considering your positioning. It's much more complicated than BLM

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Originally Posted by lisaa

Yes lv 1 healers are why it is so popular among people with i500 or even i535 raid weapons. And even though you can also start as BLM or SMN at lv 1, SCH and AST are more popular

https://files.catbox.moe/rutfta.jpeg

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I got Diamond Weapons for all my Tanks despite hating the role. I fail to see how me having a weapon for a class I don't really play is indicative of popularity.

Ladies and gentlemen, please note Lisaa is a known troll and is bored enough with healers to troll the forum given the 90+ parses someone dug up on them previously that has since been hidden from fflogs for trolling purposes.
so just ignore them and continue this thread by discussing my next question

Should a point be made about how healing and dpsing does not synergise at all?
It has been something mumbled about for years after all. Healing doesn't reward dpsing and vice versa

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Should a point be made about how healing and dpsing does not synergise at all?
It has been something mubled about for years after all. Healing doesn't reward dpsing and vice versa

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At the risk of sounding like a stuck record. For all it's flaws (and rapid failure) Warhammer Online is an amazing case study in how to do this both well and badly.

Warrior priest was the gold standard, your DPS literally powered your healing and you had to take some risks with your positioning to be at your best both in terms of DPS and healing. PvP Balance issues aside, I'd argue that it's the most innovative healing class ever devised in any MMO I've played as it's just unlike anything else. The synergy and depth within it's kit was incredible and SE would do well to take a closer look at what made it tick.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Ladies and gentlemen, please note Lisaa is a known troll and is bored enough with healers to troll the forum given the 90+ parses someone dug up on them previously that has since been hidden from fflogs for trolling purposes.
so just ignore them and continue this thread by discussing my next question

Should a point be made about how healing and dpsing does not synergise at all?
It has been something mumbled about for years after all. Healing doesn't reward dpsing and vice versa

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totally agree, the healers kit need to have synergy in both heals and his dps(downtime part) need to correlate with each other and complement one another.
there need to be a reason to the job to learn those specific skills and have them fit the job theme and lore in a good way.
whm have the buds of a good synergy with how the lily and blood lily interact and assize being both heal and dps, the idea that your heal can contribute to your damage.

if healers were design with actual planning and thought we would have seen a logical, diverse and actually fun downtime that revolve around each of the jobs themes and the kits would have both sides compliment and support each aspect of healers role jobs(healing and support).

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Ladies and gentlemen, please note Lisaa is a known troll and is bored enough with healers to troll the forum given the 90+ parses someone dug up on them previously that has since been hidden from fflogs for trolling purposes.
so just ignore them and continue this thread by discussing my next question

Should a point be made about how healing and dpsing does not synergise at all?
It has been something mumbled about for years after all. Healing doesn't reward dpsing and vice versa

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There was a crappy P2W MMO made by X-Legend(Aura Kingdom) that did exactly this with it's Bard class. Using healing spells would augment and strengthen your next DPS spell(a max of 3 stacks) while using DPS spells would augment and strengthen your next healing spell(Max of 3 stacks.)

It's kinda sad to see that an awful P2W MMO had somewhat more engaging healer gameplay than what we have. :(

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Originally Posted by Jonathan_Clover

There was a crappy P2W MMO made by X-Legend(Aura Kingdom) that did exactly this with it's Bard class. Using healing spells would augment and strengthen your next DPS spell(a max of 3 stacks) while using healing spells would augment and strengthen your next DPS spell(Max of 3 stacks.)

It's kinda sad to see that an awful P2W MMO had somewhat more engaging healer gameplay than what we have. :(

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At this point, BLU is the most engaging Healer in the game.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan_Clover

There was a crappy P2W MMO made by X-Legend(Aura Kingdom) that did exactly this with it's Bard class. Using healing spells would augment and strengthen your next DPS spell(a max of 3 stacks) while using healing spells would augment and strengthen your next DPS spell(Max of 3 stacks.)

It's kinda sad to see that an awful P2W MMO had somewhat more engaging healer gameplay than what we have. :(

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I would even say that EVERY MMO ive come across so far in my life has had better designed Healers (and tanks) than FFXIV, which is weird since one would think at first that a pay2play game should have in theory a more fleshed out game in every aspect compared to free2play.

Personally, i think casters and healers should be reworked from the ground up, in a way, where all Spells in the game are out off the GCD, and they all have their own clock ticking even if it is just 5 seconds. A change like that would tremendously improve their side of healer gameplay since it would allow designwise, alot more freedom instead of making them all feel the same.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan_Clover

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I was a DPS Bard main in that game's private server. Their core mechanics at the time I quitted was still clear as day.

DPS kits consist of:

1. Glaroilfisis equivalent, instant cast with low cooldown. This is what they spam to murder everything in addition to keep a -def% down at all time.
2. DoT nuke: useless, as is any DoT in that game (it scales very poorly as the game grows older).
3. Instant AoE stun around caster. Semi spammable making them an exceptional monster at stun locking packs of dangerous mobs in nightmare contents. No other jobs that is better for this duty other than Bards.
4. Casted frontal AoE (Spec locked): moderate damage. When fully charged they place a crucial debuff for a short period of time. Doesn't see much use anywhere but nightmare content.

Each of these spells generate 1 stack of buff to next healing spell potency & the effective range. In FFXIV the equivalent buff would be somewhere like 10% healing magic potency & 3 extra yalm every stack. Stacks up to 3 times. This means the single target heal spell can turn into an AoE healing spell. One use of healing spell consumes one of these stacks.

While the healing kits consist of:

1. Single target strong heal. Moderate cast time, almost guaranteed to heal anybody to full. Also spammable. With the right spec this also increases whoever affected with extra damage buff.
2. Instant moderate heal with small cooldown. With correct build this will also heal just enough to near full health without sacrificing DPS. With spec buff they gain a percentage based damage mitigation for next few attacks. Super handy in nightmare contents.
3. Slowcast partywide moderate heal. This is a Medica equivalent. Very low in priority for their impracticality, weak potency, and weak spec buff which reduce damage taken insignificantly. This is usually what gets somebody killed for their many downsides.
4. Instant strong partywide heal (Spec locked): this comes with a buff that grants a short window of death immunity one time. To counter-balance this they have a very long cooldown.
5. Partywide regen. Our equivalent of SCH's whispering dawn but with attached damage buff that stacks up to 3 times. It's free damage, they are required to keep this up all the time.

For each healing spell used, they generate 1 stack that buffs their next DPS spell. In FFXIV the equivalent buff would be an increase to damage dealt by approximately 10% each stack. Stacks up to 3 times. Like their counterpart, 1 use of DPS spell will consume 1 stack.

There are no MP in the game so mana management is nihil. Timing the usage of those mitigations, keeping up free damage buffs, and/or death immunity are best thing I could think of any 'management' from the gameplay.

The game however includes secondary job into the mix so that game has far more customability compared to... here, where everything are streamlined. By the time I quitted the game, DPS was a king. Pure healers builds are 99.99% deadweight, period. DPS Bards are tanky enough to survive extended pressure in the absence of dedicated tanks (but obviously cannot be a main tank). They deal respectable amount of damage and can sometimes snatch aggro away, or even keep it against other jobs for a while. Subjobs were never picked to increase the Bard's healing capabilities, because they never needed anymore than what they have. Instead everything are funneled to either boost overall party's damage or their own. The main joy of Bards mainly comes from nightmare contents (that would be FFXIV's equivalent of Unreal/EX/Savage contents). The difference is, number of time they press their heal buttons are about the same as they spam their main dps button due to how much frequent the damage spikes are. There's also that kind of 'pressure' of something's bound to go wrong real quick if I stop upkeeping the damage mitigation.

Unbalanced? Definitely. More depth? Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

At this point, BLU is the most engaging Healer in the game.

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its not even ironic, its true.
Once in a while a blu party pops up and I play blu healer and its fun. Especially the time i solo healed a blu party as blu healer vs omega v3. That was an absolute blast and pushed my rusty healer skills to the limit.
I probably could have done better but I still dont have strotram :P

I haven't met someone whose done BLU healer yet that dislikes it vs the current healers

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

At this point, BLU is the most engaging Healer in the game.

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It really is.

Covers all the healing basics.

Has buffs and debuffs for the group

Robust damage options.

Their only downside is the LONG CD on rez. Personally I think it should be removed with the healer mimicry.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It really is.

Covers all the healing basics.

Has buffs and debuffs for the group

Robust damage options.

Their only downside is the LONG CD on rez. Personally I think it should be removed with the healer mimicry.

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Honestly, if BLU wasn't handicapped into being 10 levels below cap, I could say I would do end game with BLU as a Healer. Rez being 5 minutes is a bit of an issue for Prog but I'll take a tougher prog over the snore fest that is current healer design.

While I would say that overall the changes this time around were better than shb, that isn't much of a bar to beat. Nevermind that they were built ON the mess that was shb changes. Plus some jobs literally didn't get any meaningful changes or major issues addressed (like drk and mch ping reliance)

One consistent thing though, healers got shafted again. sigh I'll look forward to when healer in need explodes when savage launches since WHM and SCH are dead on arrival. Astro isn't much better and Sage's novelty will wear off once everyone realises its just 5.0 sch with embrace macro built in.

Oh sure but we got heal boosts! thats what healers wanted right? /s

Our healing was busted as it is, and now 3/4 tanks have ridiculous healing. What more will it take for the devs to notice the glaroilifisis spam and improve healers? Perhaps a bribe to head office?

Right now ast beats whm in every single category.

Has shield,has more ogcd heals ,has heals that are strong as whm. Ast identical heals to whm such as benefic and helios not only cost less but even casted faster and lastly have better mp management and tools then whm.

in terms of healing alone, ast beats whm completely and that ignoring his cards and dps aspects they have. So whm will be a rare breed i believe as ast was at 5.0

I wouldn't count on it. WHM could have 30% less output than all of the other healers and it would still be one of the most popular jobs in the game. Only healer you can level from 1, most brand recognition, and "BuT i LoVE HOw SiMPLe It IS" would still lock its popularity at the top. Cure and Medica could have 300 lower potency than Benefic and Helios and the community would call it "The Pure Raw Straightforward Powerhouse Healer".

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I wouldn't count on it. WHM could have 30% less output than all of the other healers and it would still be one of the most popular jobs in the game. Only healer you can level from 1, most brand recognition, and "BuT i LoVE HOw SiMPLe It IS" would still lock its popularity at the top. Cure and Medica could have 300 lower potency than Benefic and Helios and the community would call it "The Pure Raw Straightforward Powerhouse Healer".

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i play WHM...not because it's a "pure healer" but because it is simple, i've found it complex enough that it's not faceroll in some content, but...partly because...if you've got sound effects on..the thunk of a staff at melee range is utterly satisfying. Is it worse than others? yes. does it struggle in some content? Yes. Will I stop playing it? nope. I've tried SCH...i don't do well. at all. and WHM is not "The Pure Raw Straightforward powerhouse" anymore. most of it's niche has been taken away and i don't do savage content, EX content only with friends, so..i'm not looking for speed runs. Looking at AST and WHM side by side...i'm going to seriously hope that they do change thin air back to how it was before especially with how the MP Economy game is going.

We'll have to see how it goes, but we know that WHM will get...sorted enough to make it not a wreck in by 6.3 and hopefully NOT a ton of screaming and yelling from other healer mains.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

and hopefully NOT a ton of screaming and yelling from other healer mains.

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Oh I wouldn't count on that either ;) WHM is nebulously "overpowered" if it's ever anything other than weaker than the others in almost every single way. The other healers are totally fine with letting it be only slightly weaker, as long as it's clearly weaker.

I'm playing RDM this expansion, just like I did last. Because I'm tired of being bored while playing a game I pay for.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Oh I wouldn't count on that either ;) WHM is nebulously "overpowered" if it's ever anything other than weaker than the others in almost every single way. The other healers are totally fine with letting it be only slightly weaker, as long as it's clearly weaker.

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Hear. hear. I'll be leveling my WHM and DNC first because...one of 4 dedicated healers in my FC, eventually dipping a toe to see how this new...Sage job does...but...i'm notoriously bad at SCH so...i've little hopes i'm gonna be a good Sage LOL

"OMG WHM IS BETTER THAN <INSERT OTHER HEALER JOBS> NEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFF!"

yes, yes, i'm semi-making a joke, but...while i admit that SCH needs work just from talking to SCH mains, i'm living with someone that's an WHM Main, AST sub-main and man is she upset about the changes to the AST/WHM stuff.

we looked over the changes in the actions and stuff this morning and made faces.

You'll all be pleased to know that I have begun updating the first post. Cutting its size a bit and rewording parts.
Issues will look something like this

1. Lack of engagement when there is no need to heal (lack of dps gcds, buffs, debuffs etc)
2. Healing capability is too strong
3. Incoming damage is too weak, infrequent and scripted
4. Healers are too homogenised with no identity.
5. Healers have had core and beloved actions removed with nothing to replace them
6. Healers acquisition of new skills is slanted too far to the higher levels
7. Healers have no depth, synergy or skill ceiling.
8. Healer glamour is too feminine and too cloth focused
9. The healing role does not feel valued as part of the game

Section 2: List of issues with each healer job and suggested solutions

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

You'll all be pleased to know that I have begun updating the first post. Cutting its size a bit and rewording parts.
Issues will look something like this

1. Lack of engagement when there is no need to heal (lack of dps gcds, buffs, debuffs etc)
2. Healing capability is too strong
3. Incoming damage is too weak, infrequent and scripted
4. Healers are too homogenised with no identity.
5. Healers have had core and beloved actions removed with nothing to replace them
6. Healers acquisition of new skills is slanted too far to the higher levels
7. Healers have no depth, synergy or skill ceiling.
8. Healer glamour is too feminine and too cloth focused
9. The healing role does not feel valued as part of the game

Section 2: List of issues with each healer job and suggested solutions

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if this is verbatim, i suggest making everything more explicit. im not trying to be pedantic but rather to avoid misunderstandings when translating
for instance, 2. healing capability is too strong. too strong, compared to what, or by what standards?
i would write 2. healing capability is too strong compared to incoming damage.

or 4. healers are too homogenized with no identity. this one is specially controversial. the healing kits are all different and you can count even aesthetics as identity. perhaps something like "healer gameplay, especially during downtime, is too similar between the jobs" would be better?

#7 is a bit unclear to me. synergy in their own kit, or with each other (or both?). id also avoid hyperbole (i cant say they have no depth or skill ceiling, but i can sure as hell say its too low, that there are little ways to improve as a healer beyond basics, or something similar to that effect)

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Originally Posted by QooEr

if this is verbatim, i suggest making everything more explicit. im not trying to be pedantic but rather to avoid misunderstandings when translating
for instance, 2. healing capability is too strong. too strong, compared to what, or by what standards?
i would write 2. healing capability is too strong compared to incoming damage.

or 4. healers are too homogenized with no identity. this one is specially controversial. the healing kits are all different and you can count even aesthetics as identity. perhaps something like "healer gameplay, especially during downtime, is too similar between the jobs" would be better?

#7 is a bit unclear to me. synergy in their own kit, or with each other (or both?). id also avoid hyperbole (i cant say they have no depth or skill ceiling, but i can sure as hell say its too low)

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This, you have to make it all clear because it has to translate into other languages relatively well.

Each Healer right now has its own issues, some more than others. I would combine 1 and 2, because those are...related sort of 'points', but at the same time Boss Fights are scripted...mob pulls in dungeons are not exactly and eventually we'll be getting to points of skipping mechanics and...well...welcome to oGCDs not there when they're needed.

The suggestions have to go patch by patch and find things to 'suggest' in a way that's "To the point".

I also think 7 is...the fact that many of the healers have been stripped of their actions (see 5?) and so there is little depth overall? *shrug* not sure to be honest.

Looking at the list, i think some points could be combined to better help the points to get across.. 2 & 3 go to gether, 1, 5, maybe 4 go together?

...and hey...let's not get into glamours...that'll open up a whole different issue. especially if you've got a male character.

I can confirm that some of these are shortened to give a general idea. The actual issues will be more detailed

For example

2. Healing capabilities are too strong for the level of damage needed to heal in all content
-Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level
-OGCD healing is strong and plentiful enough many fights can be healed entirely by OGCD
-Paladin and Warrior have enough sustain they do not need healing in some dungeons.
-All the ultimate fights have been solo healed
-Healer jobs are bloated with healing actions to the point some are made redundant.

Solutions:
- Increase amount of unavoidable damage
- decrease the strength of healing actions

I agree each healer has some problems more than others. But a lot of problems are shared across the role. That's why there is a section 2 detailing the individual healer problems

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I can confirm that some of these are shortened to give a general idea. The actual issues will be more detailed

For example

2. Healing capabilities are too strong for the level of damage needed to heal in all content
-Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level
-OGCD healing is strong and plentiful enough many fights can be healed entirely by OGCD
-Paladin and Warrior have enough sustain they do not need healing in some dungeons.
-All the ultimate fights have been solo healed
-Healer jobs are bloated with healing actions to the point some are made redundant.

Solutions:
- Increase amount of unavoidable damage
- decrease the strength of healing actions

I agree each healer has some problems more than others. But a lot of problems are shared across the role. That's why there is a section 2 detailing the individual healer problems

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ah i see. i appreciate it. i would suggest refraining from using fanmade terms like gcd & ogcd and using in-game terms like spell & abilities. or perhaps clarify them since these have to be translated to japanese.
id also argue that "All the ultimate fights have been solo healed" is more of an example of "Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level" than a standalone issue.. maybe put them together?

Well, kit-wise it seems they fixed nothing and only further trashed the lore of the healer classes. And that from what I'm reading SGE seems to be kind of overpowered compared to the other three healers. Am yet to try it myself, though... but it wouldn't surprise me if they fucked up the balancing of the new shiny healer... especially so if it was intentional to try and push numbers or give a good early impression.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Well, kit-wise it seems they fixed nothing and only further trashed the lore of the healer classes. And that from what I'm reading SGE seems to be kind of overpowered compared to the other three healers. Am yet to try it myself, though... but it wouldn't surprise me if they fucked up the balancing of the new shiny healer... especially so if it was intentional to try and push numbers or give a good early impression.

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Its absolutely to advertise the new job. I played it a little bit and on the first outing my friend had to solo heal the thunder god when I had a delivery to answer

She still wasn't 100% certain on the kit and was rearranging buttons throughout the run but she kept everyone alive like a champ. If someone who barely knows the job can solo heal TGcid despite multiple dumb players that stood in aoes to the tune of 8 stacks of vuln up, I would say that its really strong on those grounds alone

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

-Paladin and Warrior have enough sustain they do not need healing in some dungeons.

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Fun fact, I was doing the Lvl 83 Dungeon earlier with a Gunbreaker. Second boss, everyone died at once except the tank, who proceeded to solo it from about 40% HP thanks to his ridiculous self healing

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Its absolutely to advertise the new job. I played it a little bit and on the first outing my friend had to solo heal the thunder god when I had a delivery to answer

She still wasn't 100% certain on the kit and was rearranging buttons throughout the run but she kept everyone alive like a champ. If someone who barely knows the job can solo heal TGcid despite multiple dumb players that stood in aoes to the tune of 8 stacks of vuln up, I would say that its really strong on those grounds alone

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Yeah that seems doable. Another huge advantage SGE has is being front-loaded, so it's easily the strongest healer during leveling content at this point. It's basically an 80 healer at lv70 and mostly gets trait upgrades from 70-90, the few extra skills it gets just make it stronger.. and the traits give it the strongest GCD filler spells, too. Though I still don't see why the skill to give you one addersgall exists. It doesn't really do much and it's not like you need it unless you're doing full uptime memes with the shield ability.

It also seems that extra kit is enough to fool people into thinking it's not just a 1-spam job at the end of the day, based on conversations I had in Heaven on High with some people... one of which was even being a curebot as SGE and constantly trying to fish for addersting procs.

I don't know what you're talking about. Sage seems fine! :)

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Fun fact, I was doing the Lvl 83 Dungeon earlier with a Gunbreaker. Second boss, everyone died at once except the tank, who proceeded to solo it from about 40% HP thanks to his ridiculous self healing

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Adding my 2 cents on the same topic, today, I saw a sync pld and a brd (I was the brd here) down the last boss of Mt. Gulg from 100 to 0 without any problem (the healer disconnected at the pull and the other dps died on the 1st or 2nd mech). We finished full life and never drop under 50% hp during the fight.

Even worse, a couple of hours later, I saw a war solo more than 80% the last boss of the lvl 89 dungeon (i won't name it to avoid spoil) and that war had lvling green stuff.

I've red that "Healing capabilities are too strong for the level of damage needed to heal in all content" but it seems however powerful they can be, they're not even needed in 90% of the game now.

So, I uh touched Sage today. What a pos.... It's just the same thing with a buttload of bloat.

Press this button to make another button a DoT, we're creative!

Not to mention how unsatisfying it feels.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Though I still don't see why the skill to give you one addersgall exists. It doesn't really do much and it's not like you need it unless you're doing full uptime memes with the shield ability.

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Me neither, Rhizomata is just weird, gaining 1 Addersgall on a 90 sec cooldown just seems like a pointless addition. When you run into a situation where everything goes wrong and you're completely out of oGCD resources this 1 stack isn't gonna save anything.

While I haven't yet updated the first post due to the chaos that is christmas (and an ongoing family emergency, rip) I've personally experienced that the stat squish has indirectly buffed brutal shell enough that its healing for a significant chunk of health

as in enough for me to heal myself back up to full vs 2 of the qitana ravel bosses by going 1-2 because the new healer died immediately to the second mechanic both times.

I done the first endwalker dungeon as both a tank and sage now. The first time was tank and thank goodness I had heart of corundum for that. The second time round I was sage with my friend the warrior instead of sch the first time round
It became apparent just how overpowered sage was, how underpowered sch was, how little damage the bosses actually did once you learned mechanics and how hard some of those trash packs can hurt when doing the standard 2 pack pull. (the 2 blob things plus a hypertuned hit very hard unmitigated. the hypertuned alone is 1/10th of my hp if I didn't mitigate)


I've touched enough of sage now to give a good opinion even if I'm stuck at the second dungeon waiting for my friend to catch up. I can boil it down to its literally what sch in 5.0's healing toolkit should have been. The none healing aspect is still heavily dosis spam, but the dark arts analogue hides it a bit and during phase transitions its not uncommon to get a plegma stack or two. Toxikon I'm mainly using once at the start of a fight or after a phase transition as its a loss to use
"but mobility!"
You don't need mobility. You got plenty of it already from the weave window plus the slidecast mark for a grand total of 1.3 of your 2.5s gcd being mobile plus plegma and eukrasia-Eukrasian dosis.

Pneuma is just going to be another thing to fire once every 2m to save an already underused addersgall.



edit: I'll update the op once rl calms a bit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Yeah that seems doable. Another huge advantage SGE has is being front-loaded, so it's easily the strongest healer during leveling content at this point. It's basically an 80 healer at lv70 and mostly gets trait upgrades from 70-90, the few extra skills it gets just make it stronger.. and the traits give it the strongest GCD filler spells, too. Though I still don't see why the skill to give you one addersgall exists. It doesn't really do much and it's not like you need it unless you're doing full uptime memes with the shield ability.

It also seems that extra kit is enough to fool people into thinking it's not just a 1-spam job at the end of the day, based on conversations I had in Heaven on High with some people... one of which was even being a curebot as SGE and constantly trying to fish for addersting procs.

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I'm starting to think we need an ingame message saying "Fishing for Toxikon is BAD! Stop it!" when someone switches to Sage for the first ... I don't know, 20 times?
Because save for one Sage I had while spamming dungeons, everyone else was tunneling hard on spamming EDiagnosis for Toxikon and using Toxikon for dps. Even after the tank died in a medium pull (DRK, no insane selfheal unfortunately) and someone suggested the oGCDs the replies were "but shield is instant and I get procs, it's better".
And from the amount of people in the forum argueing for it or at least falling into the trap aswell, it seems incredibly common to let oGCDs sit unused/ barely used while spamming EDiagnosis and saying Sage is weak.

Lol its real easy to fall into the toxicon trap. Either you’re doing it out of boredom or you’re doing it because you genuinely think it’s the better way to go. But a large portion of the player base cares nothing about optimization so tanks now have a new type of healer to be concerned about. I personally do it out of boredom. When the tanks hp hits about half is when I use other skills to top them off but to fight off boredom… shield, all the shields lol.

Yeah, Sage has its own version of the Freecure noob trap. Not as bad, but bad nonetheless.