New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I do help my friends with dungeons though. Even buy them gear, however I like to be forward and honest, not lie to my friends about how boring and silly the story is. However you and everyone else knows that you can't ALWAYS be there and ALWAYS playing with said person.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

You seem to be stuck on this, so tell me, what are some good examples of gameplay they cannot party with you on?

Since you have repeatedly distinguished 'story' from 'gameplay', please don't include "seeing person in cutscenes" as part of your examples.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Content that matters, high end content.

Fun Dungeons? Shareable experience.

Hard Dungeons? Shareable experience.

Loot? Shareable experience.

End-Game Gameplay? Shareable experience (unless you mean story? Because 'story' was the one thing you seem to infer shouldn't count.)

Getting your characters appearance gear? Appearance? Shareable experience.

Glamour? Shareable experience.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

However you and everyone else knows that you can't ALWAYS be there and ALWAYS playing with said person.

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Mhm. You just tore apart your own argument.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Mhm. You just tore apart your own argument.

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So your saying I can always be there every second of every day for someone? That seems completely unlikely, there is no way someone can always be with another person.

Also: Solo Quests, Class Quests, Fates.

I simply cannot waste my time on such things, i'd rather log on their character and do it for them. I can't stand doing fates on my main characters.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Lots of stuff

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Except your missing the point. The quests past 2.0 are some times longer and harder then the ones before, except by the end. Most of the quests before 2.0 are quite a bit shorter. However its fun that you literally took the time to sit and count every quest. I suppose since you did that you can also count how many steps all of them have and add them up. You will see that its similar, probably. I don't have the patience for such silly things though.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So your saying I can always be there every second of every day for someone? That seems completely unlikely, there is no way someone can always be with another person.

Also: Solo Quests, Class Quests, Fates.

I simply cannot waste my time on such things, i'd rather log on their character and do it for them. I can't stand doing fates on my main characters.

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How in the world are you going to lump FATE's as a solo thing? People party up and shout FATE parties ALL the time. The other two you stated cannot be done with other players other than NPC's.
I made friends doing FATE's. You can make FATE's fun. I think you just hate this game to be honest.
What do you even like about it is my question. The faceroll dungeons you run at ilvl 11x 12x and 13x when the min is about 8x-9x or so?

And you spreading misinformation to them, of course they'll hate it, I think you want them to hate this game as much as you do.
Like I said, you may hate story, the quests, FATE's, crafing and even the Lala's! But not everyone else will.
Luckily there is a free trial for your friends to try themselves. I wouldn't take any advice from you since you hate this game to hell from the looks of it.
I mean good lord man.

Um, can people not feed the troll ? ....
I mean seriously, it's not like you can reason with a troll...

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except your missing the point. The quests past 2.0 are some times longer and harder then the ones before, except by the end. Most of the quests before 2.0 are quite a bit shorter. However its fun that you literally took the time to sit and count every quest. I suppose since you did that you can also count how many steps all of them have and add them up. You will see that its similar, probably. I don't have the patience for such silly things though.

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Oh my, it takes so very, very long to count to 200! Wait, no. No, it doesn't. Blaming your lying on your laziness doesn't make you look any better.

As for your assertion that the Astral Era quests are "some times longer and harder" than the Umbral, I call bull. Just to match the length of the Umbral quests, the Astral quests would have to be, on average, twice as long. They're not. For every Astral "If Wishes Were Horsebirds," there's an Umbral "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magitek." For every "The Reason Roaille," a "The Company You Keep." The Astral quests are not twice as hard or twice as long, and you know it. You're still a horrible liar.

Astrologian is from Sharlayan.
Dark Knights are pariahs in Ishgardian territory.
Machinist is inspired by Cid.

None of them seem to be tied to the actual city of Ishgard itself making the decision to gate them behind 2.55 seem even more odd.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Astrologian is from Sharlayan.
Dark Knights are pariahs in Ishgardian territory.
Machinist is inspired by Cid.

None of them seem to be tied to the actual city of Ishgard itself making the decision to gate them behind 2.55 seem even more odd.

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Sharlayan is in Dravanian territory. Making it as far east as Ishgard is already treacherous. DRK's entire schtick is that they hunt down Ishgardian elites who would be otherwise above the law. MCH is a job growing directly out of the dynamics of the Dragonsong War.

So, yeah, they're pretty much all tied to Ishgard.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Sharlayan is in Dravanian territory. Making it as far east as Ishgard is already treacherous. DRK's entire schtick is that they hunt down Ishgardian elites who would be otherwise above the law. MCH is a job growing directly out of the dynamics of the Dragonsong War.

So, yeah, they're pretty much all tied to Ishgard.

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A level one character can go and wander around Ishgardian territory right now, they just can't get into Ishgard itself.
So, yeah, why is access to the new jobs dependent on access to a city they don't even seem to be based in?

Lets take DRK for example, hunter of Ishgardian elites, pariah in his own country, super dark and cool. Is the trainer for this job really just going to be chilling on some street corner in the city itself?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Lets take DRK for example, hunter of Ishgardian elites, pariah in his own country, super dark and cool. Is the trainer for this job really just going to be chilling on some street corner in the city itself?

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Yes? Where else would you hunt Ishgardian elites from? Gridania? >_>

You can be a pariah while still being a necessary member of society.

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Originally Posted by Parapluies

Um, can people not feed the troll ? ....
I mean seriously, it's not like you can reason with a troll...

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This right here. It does not matter what you say to this Nektulos guy he is just going to argue with you. Also per his words he says he has only been playing this game for a month..so you kind of have to take what he says with a grain of salt. Its not his fault he doesn't know anything about the game except what he has experienced in the past month. The bottom line is he will not give in to common sense. In his eyes there is nothing we can say to reason with him so its not worth the effort.

Edit: As a side note I tried to reason with this guy back on page 32ish to 36. He simply resorted to trash talking and calling names. By this account alone he essentially negates any argument that he presented. I would also like to note that the way this person makes it sound is that new people will not be capable of doing things on their own or have to have their hands held. Which is simply not the case. Anything this guy states is pure conjecture and as I stated before should be dismissed.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yes? Where else would you hunt Ishgardian elites from? Gridania? >_>

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Yeah, hopefully the Dark Knight Guild in Ishgard will be right next door to the Palace for convenience.

Probably safe to assume all of the new abilities for every job will also be gated. It was mentioned that all of the new abilities would come from quests. I wonder how the EXP system will work for the 2.1 to 2.55 main scenario quests. I feel like every single main scenario quest has rewarded XP even though it has been worthless to us when we are capped at 50. Ha - I wonder if after the release of the expansion you will have people complete 2.55 and already by 60 based on all of the exp from 2.1 to 2.55.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Probably safe to assume all of the new abilities for every job will also be gated. It was mentioned that all of the new abilities would come from quests. I wonder how the EXP system will work for the 2.1 to 2.55 main scenario quests. I feel like every single main scenario quest has rewarded XP even though it has been worthless to us when we are capped at 50. Ha - I wonder if after the release of the expansion you will have people complete 2.55 and already by 60 based on all of the exp from 2.1 to 2.55.

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I doubt it'd be enough exp to get you to 60. But 52 might not be an unreasonable number.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Yeah, hopefully the Dark Knight Guild in Ishgard will be right next door to the Palace for convenience.

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You say that like we don't keep people in our society whose jobs we despise. I guess tax collectors have to reside outside of the nation, since they're so despised. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You say that like we don't keep people in our society whose jobs we despise. I guess tax collectors have to reside outside of the nation, since they're so despised. . .

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What she meant is that no one of the job has, so far, a lore that demands them to be strictly inside the city, making the option to put them outside of Ishgard (Coerthas, other explorable zones that HOPEFULLY won't be gated by flying or such) reasonable. They're not like the Blue Mages in FFXI that had to be in Aht Urhgan because they are an elite body that defends the Imperial Palace and as such are forbidden from leaving the city walls without imperial directive. Sure, they are related to Ishgard's society, but from what I'm reading on the HW site, they are no more involved with Ishgard than Dragoon is. And they did find a way to make Dragoon unlockable out of the city, no? They could've done the very same with these three, the lore we've been given does not impede that.

But alas.

People have moved on and accepted the ROG is a level 15 Class. In time, this thread will join it in the dark recesses of the forums.

*A nervous, bespecticaled man approaches the League of Dark Knights at its convenient location next to the palace. An imposing Au Ra Dark Knight stands at the door, running a whetstone up and down his enormous blade. He barely spares the mousy little man, barely more than half his height, a glance as he edges past him and enters the establishment. He approaches a hulking Roegadyn Dark Knight seated in a chair far too small for his bulk, behind a desk likewise far too small.*

Roegadyn: WELCOME TO THE LEAGUE OF DARK KNIGHTS, LITTLE MAN. WHAT MATTER OF VENGEANCE GUIDES YOU TO US THIS MISERABLE WINTER'S MORN?

Mousy man: Erm, well, it seems that the rulemakers of the nation are a bit unnerved by the way you slew Lord Destival last week.

Roegadyn: HE WAS GUILTY OF CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE. HIS CORRUPTION LEAD TO THE WYRMS' SLAUGHTER OF SIX VILLIAGES.

Mousy man: Yes, well, see, the rest of the rulemakers were a bit put off by his guts strewn about the palace steps. And since they, well, make the rules, the decision has been made to relocate your headquarters. Erm, to Southern Thanalan.

Roegadyn: ...BUGGER.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

People have moved on and accepted the ROG is a level 15 Class.

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You only have to reach level 10 to switch to Rogue. It's a far cry from having to complete the entire game to date.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

You only have to reach level 10 to switch to Rogue. It's a far cry from having to complete the entire game to date.

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So an extra 250+ quests and 23,000% more exp, it's pretty much the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I doubt it'd be enough exp to get you to 60. But 52 might not be an unreasonable number.

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Pretty close estimate assuming lv 50 quest offer 15k xp a turn in, would be about 1.5mil xp granted through MS counting all the lv 50 quest. Which honestly would be a good perk for those who are just starting to play and get to Ishgard. While yes players who already beat the MS will most likely level faster through Ishgard at least those with the expansion who are still going through the MS will hopefully not remain at a stagnant lv 50 and can at least gain xp as they make their way to Ishgard.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

So an extra 250+ quests and 23,000% more exp, it's pretty much the same thing.

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Apparently. =P

Does your XP ever overflow in these games? I have got so much XP I just feel like is going nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Apparently. =P

Does your XP ever overflow in these games? I have got so much XP I just feel like is going nowhere.

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What does this even mean?
After 50, you don't get EXP from anything anymore. No idea if our rested bonus get's pushed into 60.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

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/Off Topic
I love your gif, makes me feel relaxed. lol

/On topic
It's fairly onvious by now Nektulos is a troll. I'm pretty much just:
http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs.../popcorn49.gif

But Hopefully the new folks who care about the game are actually in it right now, and will be ready for Heavensward. I just got another friend to join today *v*

Old game thing sweetheart. FFXIV seemed "unique" from what I hear from most people. I wanted to see if that was part of it.

I love this story though:

Moenbryda: "Hurry up and get him before the rift closes!"
*End Cut Scene, you have got access to the Chrysalis*
Me: "Oh? Your dying, and you say I have a limi-.."
*You must have 7 more people to complete this instance..*

Oh... that makes total sense in the story! Completely immersion breaking for me. I was told I had to hurry up and get inside but outside the game its telling me I some how called 7 people to help me?

That is ridiculously funny! I can imagine how that actually plays out in the story.

Me: "Oh yeah? Whats up bud, mind if ya come help me jump into this dangerous lookin rift? Its bout to close!"
Bud: "Whats in it for me dude?"
Me: "Crystals n' stuff!"
Bud: "naaah i'm sure it'le be fine!"

Honestly, it should of been a solo trial. That would of actually made SENSE to the story!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

stuff

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Oh noes, you have to have friends to defeat beings who can revive constantly. They make it a point throughout the story that you need more than yourself to defeat the trials you face, why are you surprised?

Don't really know why I bothered to reply, you will just ignore anything that you don't agree with anyways.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Oh noes, you have to have friends to defeat beings who can revive constantly. They make it a point throughout the story that you need more than yourself to defeat the trials you face, why are you surprised?

Don't really know why I bothered to reply, you will just ignore anything that you don't agree with anyways.

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Because it doesn't make sense in the story given?

Unless you know, the Immortal being whose probably lived longer then you and I combined was kind enough to leave the portal open for a couple hours to let me set up a plan and call people inside =)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Because it doesn't make sense in the story given?

Unless you know, the Immortal being whose probably lived longer then you and I combined was kind enough to leave the portal open for a couple hours to let me set up a plan and call people inside =)

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Time freezes between sections of quests. It kind of has to, or else you would be forced immediately into situations you aren't prepared for. It does this in most games.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Time freezes between sections of quests. It kind of has to, or else you would be forced immediately into situations you aren't prepared for. It does this in most games.

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That is how a story should be, with a chance to fail completely and the story should change base on your failing. You shouldn't always "win" everything, that just makes a bad story.

One of the reasons I think games like this are failing, are people just have so much time to preplan and prepare for events ahead. Life doesn't always give you a test or pretest you can study before taking on its challenges and its unfair.

This is one thing that makes the story boring+predictable.

In Everquest 1, do you think many people were prepared for some of the older world changing events in the game? NO! You had to go do them now! If you failed to do them your game changed for the better or worse. The developers didn't stop time for you to sit and plan, you had to learn the strategies of the fight at the time it was released or you failed.

That is what made good stories. That is why such things and older games are still talked about today, because they were truley epic.

These days time stops and people just sit and watch youtube videos to tell them how to complete the test.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

stuff.

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and games like that wouldnt cut it these days.

Would you prefer to be forced into the instance and then have to wait an undetermined amount of time for the 7 other people to join?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

and games like that wouldnt cut it these days.

Would you prefer to be forced into the instance and then have to wait an undetermined amount of time for the 7 other people to join?

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No, I would prefer to be forced into the instance, and if I failed I failed entirely and the world changes because of my failure. Some times I shouldn't mess with things I don't understand and the game teaches me that through my failures and mistakes.

I would of prefered having to fight it alone, and possibly failing. Then having to find a way to get back inside with help.

Now THAT would have been a good story.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

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Just feeding you here, but for someone who is pro solo - you sure took on that challenge with a lot of schs. Seems like you need friends to win fights.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

Just feeding you here, but for someone who is pro solo - you sure took on that challenge with a lot of schs. Seems like you need friends to win fights.

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Who is the troll now? You made a completely off-topic post that has nothing to do with the thread to attempt to spring hatred from me. A quite humorous one too. I simply proved to someone that something could be done in a unique way. I didn't really care about the score I got in attempting that. I don't care about "how easy" I made it, I simply cared about getting said job done. I did it, and proved them wrong, the end.

However:
http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs.../popcorn49.gif

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

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You kind of lost the bet - don't know how you proved anyone wrong. Just shows how much you can't go a minute without feeling like your some kind of douche.
But I wasn't going off topic, your preaching how you wanted the game to be more solo.
I questioned your previous post which shows that you couldn't do it solo/ with randoms.
You went int with a group of friends.
For someone who wants more immersion by going at the trial solo.
You really don't follow what you preach.

Just taking something away from this mess, but having higher level solo content does sound like fun. At worst one would have to tailor it by role.

And yes I'm aware of a lot of the content requires party content, but some of the fun I've had in mmos was in taking on things by myself too. There's a lack of that rush in eorzea currently.

Just like NIN wasn't gated behind the Yugiri plotline, I'm willing to bet none of the new 3 jobs will be really gated behind 2.55 -- perhaps some quests for them, but not acquiring the job. I think it telling that nowhere in the descriptions of the new jobs does it ever mention the main city of Ishgard, and DRK are 'pariahs in their own lands' -- a non-Ishgard base seems most likely for them. AST could easily be outside Ishgard as people from Sharlayan could, like Yugiri, leave their homes to impart this job. Even Machinist could have a building/smelting/creating Skysteel manufactory outside Ishgard (less pollution, too). I think SE wants these new jobs as a selling point to draw in new players - good business sense // marketing them as a major component then locking them behind the main story isn't newbie friendly -- and we saw from NIN that SE is very open to glossing over plot in order to fulfill a customer desire.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Just like NIN wasn't gated behind the Yugiri plotline, I'm willing to bet none of the new 3 jobs will be really gated behind 2.55 -- perhaps some quests for them, but not acquiring the job.

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It's already confirmed you require 2.55 completed to unlock new jobs.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

It's already confirmed you require 2.55 completed to unlock new jobs.

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It is confirmed you need Ishgard to get the job quests -- it isn't confirmed that the new jobs are gotten via 'job quests' initially. They could easily forego having the job acquisition being part of the whole "job quests" and relegate those to just job skills. Besides - this is SE // something 'confirmed' today can be an "Oops, what we meant was..." later. Either way, it doesn't even matter for almost all of us so I wonder why people care so much or even desire it so badly to be locked -- it isn't like we're affected, just the new players, who I think SE would want to retain.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

It is confirmed you need Ishgard to get the job quests -- it isn't confirmed that the new jobs are gotten via 'job quests' initially.

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Yoshi specifically mentioned last Live Letter that the new jobs are unlocked inside Ishgard, and so 2.55 is a requirement for it.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

It is confirmed you need Ishgard to get the job quests -- it isn't confirmed that the new jobs are gotten via 'job quests' initially. They could easily forego having the job acquisition being part of the whole "job quests" and relegate those to just job skills.

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There will be quests to learn job skills, and it's possible that some of those could form a separate story from the ones that initially unlock the job, just like how our current job quests form a separate story only peripherally related to the story in the class quests that precede it. But I'm not sure how the quests that unlock and initially introduce us to a job wouldn't fall under the category of "job quests". At the very least, they'd be part of our job quests, even if they're followed by other job quests elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Besides - this is SE // something 'confirmed' today can be an "Oops, what we meant was..." later.

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True. It's already happened on this very issue. They've made a complete reversal of their earlier position that the jobs would be available regardless of story progression. Now people are waiting to see whether they'll flip back again.