Twitch streamers still blatantly cheating on stream.

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I don't care. The game has dps checks so people need meters.

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The game has been developed, designed, tested and played exhaustively, the devs have stated unequivocally that they are in fact NOT needed, in fact the game can be, and has been, played and beaten without them.

You can beat ultimate with a totally vanilla client, if you cant, thats a YOU issue. A lot of players have in fact become SO dependent on them that they literally CANT play without them, but thats not a game design problem.

Thats their problem.

The game doesnt need meters. You may need them, thats another issue entirely.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

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Gamers play game wrong that's why SE adding mods in game. Please.

How is ACT, in and of itself, cheating

By which I mean, add-ons bad/against ToS etc. Etc., but reading the history of this (necroed) thread people seem adamant ACT, BY ITSELF, is cheating.

Cheating is the act of giving oneself a performative advantage in a competitive setting through means outside of the normal mechanics of the contest (can't be bothered to look up the dictionary def, plus it'd be kinda silly to quote Webster or something, instead I'll just throw this adhoc definition I made up that hopefully everyone agrees on).

So in that context, how does ACT itself, by itself, not with other programs/mods/whatever "hooked in" (don't really know how it all works besides what I've gleaned from discussion about it) count as cheating?

Like, what advantage does it give you? And I ask this earnestly. Does knowing you're doing your rotations slightly suboptimally change a failed DPS check? No, because you will... Fail the DPS check. Knowing it's because you (or someone else, or whatever) didn't weave as perfectly as you could have... Doesn't change anything?

The only thing, and this is a stretch but I'm literally just speculating from a place of ignorance, is that like... Idk, maybe you can use ACT and if everyone in the duty sees you're not gonna break through a DPS check you all vote abandon to start from scratch, saving yourself a few seconds on the timer running out and the mechanic itself killing you? Or something...?

Seriously asking. How is ACT/parsing cheating? It's an addon, yes, it gives you information that is not easily understandable in real time, yes. But how is it cheating? Again, not talking about cactbot or whatever, talking mainly @ the people in the thread who adamantly declare all add-ons "cheats". What is your definition of cheating, then?

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Originally Posted by Vukimukinukiduki

Gamers play game wrong that's why SE adding mods in game. Please.

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That 1 mod is accepted doesnt mean the other one also should. Each case must be checked seperately.

And note that popularity is NOT a good measurement (the most popular mods are nearly always cheats)

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Seriously asking. How is ACT/parsing cheating? It's an addon, yes, it gives you information that is not easily understandable in real time, yes. But how is it cheating? Again, not talking about cactbot or whatever, talking mainly @ the people in the thread who adamantly declare all add-ons "cheats". What is your definition of cheating, then?

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The moment players fully rely on information granted by such mod, it also becomes mandatory to use it, especialy since it will force the devs to balance things towards its usage. WoW is proof of how bad such approach is since without mods its unplayable (you will be kicked the moment they know you dont have it installed).

Note that gathering information from your screen (and not a mod) is still a part of skill. A mod would negate such skill since it now will just dump fixed tresholds at you to beat. You remove any adaptations to it, and also remove any desire for a player to exceed such treshold since its not needed (it helps at best, but why bother when you can kick the weak link instead?).

Thats why its a problem.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

The game has been developed, designed, tested and played exhaustively, the devs have stated unequivocally that they are in fact NOT needed, in fact the game can be, and has been, played and beaten without them.

You can beat ultimate with a totally vanilla client, if you cant, thats a YOU issue. A lot of players have in fact become SO dependent on them that they literally CANT play without them, but thats not a game design problem.

Thats their problem.

The game doesnt need meters. You may need them, thats another issue entirely.

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As learned by how stiff the DPS check was for P8S-1, we learned that the dev testers are pretty good at the game because crit RNG was determining pass/fail for very talented world-first groups. Meters do not make you better at the game and ACT and any ACT plug-ins don't play the game for you. I am so tired of people not understanding that x doesn't equal y. Yes, there absolutely are plugins for a *different* thing that does make some effect areas visible etc. but again, nothing outright plays for you. You still need to move, you still need to react.

I am not against ACT, or triggers in ACT that just give you a audio notification that x started because you can't focus on watching a castbar for 4 hours straight. Anything beyond that, I personally think is a step too far. I also don't care if other people avail themselves of any tools they can. The "advantage" doesn't actually give them anything. It's not like PvP has specific gear to make you better. Everyone is normalized. There isn't some super rare reward for being first at x. It. Does. Not. Matter. There is absolutely no effect on me or my gameplay.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Why does square enix not just blanket ban them all to enforce the point that 3rd party programs are not allowed.

It takes 2-3 seconds of scrolling too see multiple people streaming with ACT and various other plugins.

The playerbase will not learn unless they enforce the rules.

Set an example.

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You can explain why you care, if you want. You can go into detail about how it bothers you that people you don't even know, and who should have no impact in your life are playing the game in a way you don't approve of.

That's all perfectly fine. You have every right to be bothered.

But please explain why I should care. How are their 3rd-party usage affecting my FFXIV experience? Because honestly, I don't see it. And believe me, I tried really hard to think of a reason why I should be bothered, but I couldn't come up with a single reason.

So yeah, maybe you can help me out with that? Or I'll be forced to come to the conclusion that the only problem here, is you.

I don't even care about modding subject anymore but it's the funniest shit ever to read what people make up to defend plugins

HOW IS HOOKING THE GAME AND DIRECTLY READING FROM IT'S MEMORY CHEATING
HOW IS INJECTING CUSTOM MODELS, ANIMATIONS AND CODE CHEATING IT'S JUST AFFECTING ME
HOW IS ME MANIPULATING THE COOLDOWN TO FIX THE NETWORK FLAWS CHEATING I JUST FIX THE ISSUES THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE

It's just like lmao what are you even talking about, I just wait for the day when people speedhack and be like YEA BUT THAT'S LIKE ONLY AFFECTING ME, I JUST TRY TO MINIMIZE THE TRAVEL DOWNTIME.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

I don't even care about modding subject anymore but it's the funniest shit ever to read what people make up to defend plugins

HOW IS HOOKING THE GAME AND DIRECTLY READING FROM IT'S MEMORY CHEATING
HOW IS INJECTING CUSTOM MODELS, ANIMATIONS AND CODE CHEATING IT'S JUST AFFECTING ME
HOW IS ME MANIPULATING THE COOLDOWN TO FIX THE NETWORK FLAWS CHEATING I JUST FIX THE ISSUES THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE

It's just like lmao what are you even talking about, I just wait for the day when people speedhack and be like YEA BUT THAT'S LIKE ONLY AFFECTING ME, I JUST TRY TO MINIMIZE THE TRAVEL DOWNTIME.

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BTW you better not be playing the game on a fast internet, because that's cheating. Especially if you use a VPN. The proper way to enjoy FFXIV is on a slow dial-up connection so that everyone is on an even playing field.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

I don't even care about modding subject anymore but it's the funniest shit ever to read what people make up to defend plugins

HOW IS HOOKING THE GAME AND DIRECTLY READING FROM IT'S MEMORY CHEATING
HOW IS INJECTING CUSTOM MODELS, ANIMATIONS AND CODE CHEATING IT'S JUST AFFECTING ME
HOW IS ME MANIPULATING THE COOLDOWN TO FIX THE NETWORK FLAWS CHEATING I JUST FIX THE ISSUES THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE

It's just like lmao what are you even talking about, I just wait for the day when people speedhack and be like YEA BUT THAT'S LIKE ONLY AFFECTING ME, I JUST TRY TO MINIMIZE THE TRAVEL DOWNTIME.

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But how is it cheating, unironically?

What is your definition of cheating? Because you're conflating multiple things here, namely

- visual [aesthetic] changes (viera having hats)

How does this affect gameplay?

- visual [rendering/marking mechanics automatically and/or allowing viewspace increase]

Okay yeah this is cheating, it provides a means to perform the task of clearing a duty more easily/in a way that advantages you over players who don't have it

- informational [knowing how much damage you're doing]

I refer to my long post above, how does parsing by itself constitute cheating? How does knowing how much damage you're doing help you pass a DPS check better? The failed mechanic tells you the same thing, you're not doing enough damage, get better gear and/or use better consumables and/or practice your rotation

- mechanical [affecting ping/latency/server functions]

Cheating insofar as it provides you something that other players don't have, but I echo sentiments that such things that apparently are easily changeable should be native to the game? Idk exactly what even these sorts of add-ons/plugins are, p much the only ones I know about are ACT, derivative call-out mods like cactbot (from debates about ACT mentioning it), and visual/texture/model mods. Oh, and camhacks I guess because of the WF cheating thing a while ago.

Anyways, yeah. It makes any sort of point you have against the unfairness of cheating come across as hyperbolic and exaggerated when you label things like chat bubbles or slightly higher-res clothing as "cheating" by virtue of being mods. I can't agree with this, they offer literally and demonstrably no advantage in gameplay terms, no matter how many times you about about it or conflate it with things that are pretty clearly cheating.

As it is.... SE will find a way to plug it away for good.... and then we will have goodbye videos on youtube with crying and everything because the game just reach a tier where you actually had to put competetion on the side of console players and actually get gut....

So yes something should definetely be done, and plugging the outlets so there is no way to mine the data from would be the way ahead.