P1N Warrior solo kill

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Instead of whining about WAR its obvious that DRK needs sustainability buff to not stand out.

Unfortunately healers will never get what they need (which is more involved dps rotation when healing is not needed) because Square Enix has some weird design philosophy for them where their kits focus on giving them healing tools that are not needed in high level content and most of their gameplay loop is pressing one dps GCD over and over.

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Healers don't need complicated DPS rotations, they need a reason to use their healing tools in high level content.

The content needs to be damaging enough and threatening enough that tanks will not be able to sustain themselves on their own.

That will make it so healers are not just pressing one damage button the entire time.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

On top of that, even in ShB I thought Nascent Flash was kinda a strong heal as well. Is this recency bias?

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Nascent was powerful, but the key difference between nascent & bloodwhetting, and why the 2nd is so much more powerful is the consistency.

Nascent scaled off your damage, meaning its healing power was extremely dependent on what resources and tools you had available at that moment. If you did heavy swing/Overpower _> Maim/Mythril -> storm's eye/AOE, Nascent healed for basically jack all, as your base ST/AOE hits did very little damage. old Nascent at its weakest would barely cover a round of mob autos in SHB. For Nascent to be actually powerful, you had to sink IR (which came only once every 90s), a ton of beast gauge with FC/Decimate, or IC/CC with your infuriates in order for Nascent to have an actual visible effect. As a result, nascent was only as consistent as the tools WAR had at the moment.

Contrast Bloodwhetting, which is 400healing potency minimum on every hit. Meaning it doesn't matter if you use Heavy swing three times in a row or FC x 3 under IR, you're getting a huge chunk of health per hit, meaning every single Bloodwhetting is now giving a consistent, extremely high return on every use, which is why people are mentioning WAR's self sustain as a huge issue. Bloodwhetting at its weakest is miles above nascent flash at its weakest. That's why its so strong. The fact its so consistent is only exasperated in dungeons due to its '400 per hit' clause, making the button effectively a GCD benediction with a 1/3rd uptime in dungeons, to the point a healer could literally not heal a WAR the entire dungeon in pulls and they'd still be fine, which is something absolutely ludcicrous when compared to even GNB/PLD, who have nice sustain options, but literally nowhere near close the hps throughput of WAR.

Nascent flash was powerful at very specific, 5-10s windows of SHB WAR's rotation. Bloodwhetting is always powerful.

WAR can still be the 'heals damage it takes' tank. It still has equil, and Bloodwhetting can still stick around. The issue is Bloodwhetting is way overtuned compared to the other tank's sustain options that it can literally invalidate an entire role's existence (healers) with zero dps loss, hence why it needs to be nerfed. Preferably by making it heal only once per GCD instead of per target hit with a slight healing potency loss so it's function in raids is relatively unchanged, but its dungeon use is severely neutered where it is broken beyond belief.

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Originally Posted by DarkDredgen

OK, so we remove all shields/health regen/damage mitigation from dps and strip all healers of any and all offensive abilities while we are at it?

Or are we just culling the tanks here?

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Healers WANT something to heal, but the game doesn't have that right now.

But speaking of culing, Healers were already culled. This doesn't even show the multiple things that WHM and AST lost as well.

https://i.imgur.com/saGkK51.png

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

Healers don't need complicated DPS rotations, they need a reason to use their healing tools in high level content.

The content needs to be damaging enough and threatening enough that tanks will not be able to sustain themselves on their own.

That will make it so healers are not just pressing one damage button the entire time.

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Lets be honest, Healers need a more complicated dps rotation to stay awake

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

[...]
But speaking of culing, Healers were already culled. This doesn't even show the multiple things that WHM and AST lost as well.

https://i.imgur.com/saGkK51.png

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We can all pull out memes of what DRK lost and donated to role actions. We can also say "this doesn't even show the multiple things that PLD and WAR lost as well."

Culling happened pretty heavily for the custodial roles (tanks and healers). Some jobs got it worse than other. DRK and SCH are usually agreed on these forums to have been culled the most.

What we do not want is the tank role to be culled more so that another role can feel justified for its own existence just because less than a thousandth of a percent of the player-base can solo P1N on 3/4 tanks jobs and 8-tank an ultimate.

Crying for SE to nerf tank damage, self-sustain, whatever is not going to hurt the high end players who do these non-standard comps. The higher end players who have the personality matrix, skill, and time will find a way to low-man or solo things that would still make people run to SE to cry for more nerfs.

Instead, such culling will effect the average skilled tank player who PUG content and deals with the RNG of quality when it comes to healers and DPS they get. That would be the majority of us players.

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

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Because there's nothing wrong with it? That's like saying DNC shouldn't have Curing Waltz because healers exist.

The problem isn't tanks or even dps having sustain. The problem is that the game is clearly not designed around them having it while also having a "dedicated healing role".

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

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Because it's fun and makes them stand out? The whole design of the tank role has been to make things as easy on other party members as possible, be it through mitigating damage, healing people (or themselves), positioning the boss and mob packs, etc etc. It's why DRK mains are so salty now despite them having the highest DPS. They've pretty much been the poster child of "all take and no give" since Stormblood (as much as people like to pretend that things were better back then). Tanks shouldn't be made less fun just because the healer role is shit for all but the hardest of content.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

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Because self-healing/drain tanking has been an archetype since.... MUDs, even? Even discounting those it's still a thing in Lineage, WoW, Ragnarok Online, FFXI... It exists as a concept in games outside of MMOs too.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

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Because why not? Because it's fun to have different sorts of, and factors among, time constraints in tanks' sustain (be that via nullifying or recovering from damage)?

That a healer exists does not mean that all other jobs must lose an entire span of capacity, especially something so obviously just the other side of the same coin, as in the case of damage nullification (mitigation) and recovery (healing).