I'm sure you can see the difference between willingly signing up for and seeking hard content versus signing up for easy, casual content but it's hard or even impossible to do because players at level 80s have absolutely zero idea how to play their classQuote:
Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd
Please implement something to teach players how to play
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07-12-2021, 10:44 PMRinhi
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07-12-2021, 10:45 PMCaitlynI know its tricky xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
To be clear: I m not against Quality of Life or making jobs more accessable. But the problem is, if you keep simplifing/nerfing the game, the challenge get lost. Without challenge, players get bored. And bored players wont learn anything.
People get frustrated very fast, if someone wiped the group in an already easy content. Back in ARR-days, there was almost no toxicity, because you know that the content was hard and even small mistakes can cause a wipe. And that was ok. But since FFXIV is not a niche-MMORPG anymore, you cant just make dungeons harder.
1. ilvl-Sync. It doesnt work properly. Thats the reason, why Unreal exists... . But other than that, with current gear, you get stronger with each add-on. You can skip mechanics completely (like in Syrcus Tower). Additionally, you re reduced by a few skills, which isnt fun. Every job is focused on max level. Bozja may be a good example how sync correctly. Instead of taking away skills, you re already level 80 and can level your class simulatenously. For someone at level 79, its no fun to run Sastasha with a handfull of skills.
2. Level-experience. The problems are not shop-potions or "fast" leveling. Its the way how you level. The most efficient ways are FATEs (Bozja), Dungeons, Dailies. But that can pretty repetitive when you re planning to max level all 17 (with Endwalker 19) jobs. Since there is no actual challenge, you can brain-afk level your jobs all the way. There is no actual way where you have to learn your class (if you wont do it yourself). It would be nice to have something like a (mandatory) advanced tutorial where you have to clear specific objectives and get reward with a good amount of exp (like hall of novice).
3. Same Dungeons. Maybe make them a tiny bit harder. But more important, add more variety into them. We got tons of dungeons (which look and sound nice) with the same 3-boss-scheme. Why not having 4 bosses or just 1? Or a huge (but weak) group of trashmobs. Or different paths to choose from. But its always the same ride. Dzemael, Brayflox HM and Bardam are good examples of how to make dungeons more exciting.
To improve the player base, some reworks must be done. You cant just point the finger to other players, if the game basically allowed players to play it that way.
"Why should I do damage as healer, when I cleared all dungeons that way already? If I can "beat" the game by just doing a heal every minute, it wont be wrong, right?"
And then comes Extreme and Savage difficulty... -
07-12-2021, 11:26 PMAnnRam
The game its already so so easy ( outside of raiding/savage etc) that most people can finish normal content without even looking at the screen. I don't have issues like you even on Crystal, maybe 1 person per 100 dungeons/trails or raids that is new or maybe is having a bad day.
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07-12-2021, 11:36 PMdan_8989
Hi
I'd just like to give my experience as a new/returning player that has never got past level 60 content. I'm currently around the Shiva encounter.
For the first 50 levels the dungeon experience is just overwhelming. I have played as a CNJ/WHM and the 4 man content at the start is just a rush to the finish and you can barely keep up with what is happening if you are doing it for the first time. An example is the Haukke manor where at one point all the members just disappeared. It was a good minute or so before I was told in chat to type /return at which point the tank had already started to pull and was low on health. My assumption is that /return would take you back to your home point/city. If i missed the point where it told you otherwise, my mistake.
Most of the time the fights end before you can understand any of the mechanics if there are any due to all other members being overpowered.
On the 8 man content at the end of ARR for the story quests, this is more of the same, if not more frantic.
On the 24 man raids (Crystal tower)which are now part of the MSQ, these have skippable cutscenes which I did as I feel guilty. These are not explained in any way at all, or at least in a way that's obvious and meaningful for someone new. These are blown threw in 15 minutes and again, i don't have a clue what happened in these dungeons and have had to go back and watch the cutscenes on youtube. Should i spend hours watching videos learning 4 mechanics that each boss has for 4 bosses that that will probably take 2-3 minutes to kill.
Another thing is the MSQ dungeons. The quests have a level against them and for the vast majority of the story quests, my level was way above that of the dungeons by only doing main story quests and class quests. I got the feeling that I shouldn't be doing these dungeons more than once or i will be over levelled for the story quests. Therefore blasting through it once and then never again, not to learn how to improve.
Ultimately up to the point where I am in the game, my participation feels like it hasn't mattered in the 8/24 man content and only slightly in the 4 man content due to how overpowered everyone is. If I just sat and following everyone around would the raid still be cleared, probably. There is no one telling me if I'm doing a good job or what to measure myself against unless the party wipes, then I'm still unclear if its my fault or not. I must be doing a good job though as I receive loads of recommendations, or is that just because I'm last out as I'm watching cutscenes and there's no one else to give it to?
I really dont think its new players not wanting to learn because I think the vast majority do want to. I have watched numerous youtube videos and read content to try to understand it better. But upto now i have yet to put anything into practice due to the speed runs and most being aimed at end game content. Ultimately I believe that there is just so much going on that its hard to know whats going on and what affect you are having on it. I cannot speak for higher level content but this is just my experience so far as a new player. -
07-12-2021, 11:41 PMOranKells
I am also quite frustrated by this. A while back I got placed into a 70 dungeon with 2 dps that knew each other and clearly boosted. We could not clear the first boss. The blm never used enochian, the drg never used blood of the dragon. I stopped to explain mechanics. I even spelled out the basic rotation but there was zero improvement so by the fourth try I just left.
This was an exceptional case but I've seen a ton of people who just muddled through the msq and are not simply bad but cosmically incompetent; it's hard to believe they aren't trolling.
I'm not expecting purple parses but when the roulettes throws us black mages who don't even have fire IV on a hotbar its a problem. and I wish there was just a teeny tiny bit of gatekeeping before endgame or roulettes or something that required a player to show a basic understanding of how their job works -
07-12-2021, 11:49 PMAldoraI just wanted to chime in and say that luckily not all of the veterans out there will "throw a tantrum" if a wipe occurs. It is true that when you look at the Final Fantasy XIV player base, you have a lot of people who have been playing the game for a long time. Based on their background and the experience they've collected over time, they will have a certain expectation when it comes to grouped content. Depending on their expectations, they can respond quite harshly when certain things happen during the run. But, there are plenty of players who are understanding, especially if you let them know beforehand if you are new to said run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixelplix
There is no shame in letting others know that you are new to a duty or the class/job you're playing. We're happy to help, but at the same time when we notice that players are doing something wrong / could something differently, we don't appreciate it if we're getting a "you don't pay my sub" kind of reply. Due to this, most veterans will remain quiet unless spoken to. Just don't let this bother you and don't feel bad if you make mistakes. We're all human. We've all been there and had to learn how to play the game ourselves.
If people ask me for tips, it would the following:
- Be sure to read the tooltips of your skills, so you know what each individual skill / spells does and how they work together with other skills in your toolkit.
- Keep practicing in order to gain muscle memory, so that it becomes something like a second nature and you will have to think less about what to use next.
- Get comfortable with your job. If that means that you need to stick to healing at the beginning, that's fine. But, keep challenging yourself by inserting offensive spells too. The general rule when playing, especially for casters, is "Always Be Casting" (also known as "Learning your ABC's")
- If you don't feel comfortable practicing with other (random) people in a duty, you can find training dummies at several locations (as well as the "Stone, Steel and Sky" timed content) where you can practice to your hearts content.
- Ask questions if you're confused about something. Some might even join you at a training dummy to walk you through a rotation.
- If possible, expand your horizon by trying out several different jobs. You'll eventual find one that feels the most natural to your playstyle.
- Outside of in-game means, there are loads of community websites and Discord servers where other players can help you.
Finally, you don't have to watch guides for content like Dungeons, Normal / Hard Mode Trials, 24-man Raids or 8-man Normal Raids. These types of content are tuned in a way that they will show of mechanics in sequence before combining them in later phases. That way you'll get the change to learn what each mechanic does before you need to handle multiple at the same time / in quick succession. Extreme Trials are a good bridge towards the end-game Savage and Ultimate content. Once you feel comfortable with your job and have built up a good amount of experience within the game, give those a go. There are plenty of people who prefer to clear content blind, so they won't require you to watch a video first.
Also keep in mind, when grouping with others, runs can be a hit or a miss. If you happen to end up in one of the "miss" groups, don't worry. Learn from the experience and try it again (perhaps with another group).
You'll get there. (^_~ )-b -
07-13-2021, 01:07 AMSannaRSadly any time someone brings up this want those who are opposed to it tend to act to wanting a skill level of the NA and EU player base to be higher than the equivalent of walking over a bar that's literally on the floor is that those who want a way to bring that skill level up is that we want everyone to need to be at the skill level of someone trying out for a spot on a world first raid team. Or that people want to look down their collective noses at the new players. That just wanting the player base to at least use every skill/spell they have at least once is seen as an elitist highly toxic mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo
As I've said I would love occasional how well are you doing skill wise checks. Heck I would just love it if there was a higher level of situational awareness of the player base. As for me that's near the root of the problem. Where people don't notice what's happening around them in a fight. If everyone and their 2nd cousin is running to an area or using an ability like vrill ect that maybe everyone else isn't being a complete troll and you should follow. I wished people would ask questions if there's something they don't understand. Or say they're new. Vets aren't mind readers, just because the game says there's a new person doesn't mean that 100% says they're a new player. It could be an alt for all we know. -
07-13-2021, 01:13 AMSannaRFirst you can get around the character limit by editing your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_8989
Second you're still in ARR which sadly you don't really don't get to anything not face rolly until you get to Thornmarch. If not to the point where you need to do the Hardmode versions of Titan, Ifrit and Garuda. After Thornmarch stuff should get better. Unfortunately a lot of players just want to get in and out so they go as fast as can be. Then there's just power creep. -
07-13-2021, 12:25 PMkaynideI was the one suggesting a time trial kinda mode for pre-formed parties. I never did WoW and don't really know what Mythic-Plus beyond scaling dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixelplix
Can you elaborate?
As I see it, allowing players who want to do content at a harder level (pre-formed "raid teams", not with random players) seems like a fair way to allow them to have content that'd be easy to implement, but with most of us never touching it. That said, I don't know what kind of situation or reaction that makes in the community as a whole (as you experienced in WoW), so I'm curious what happens. Does it just go full toxic? -
07-13-2021, 12:39 PMWavaryen
After reading through all of this. I not found any reasons on to way it should be added.
You have a friend list, and tools to make your own groups and set a standard in that way. You want to train people to play better, so you can have the convenience of not needing to be social, and getting a good group. Queue systems should have risk of quality of players you get. That is risk of the convenience. If you want groups that always plays to your standard. Make them, and be social.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
Correct, while yes Timers make things harder. It comes at a heavy price of being toxic, and gets people to gate keep even harder. With a timer, people want to over gear the content, and or if one person fails and you miss the timer. It breeds toxic like in wow.
Mind you, It is content I would not do, but I see no reason why it should not be in. As long as the GMS keep enforcing the rules. The player base should not be worried about toxic people.