Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I get the desire to have some actual AoE play prior to Shadowbringers, but I kind of hate that we so quickly seem to forget that depth in AoE can exist without the bloat of A-B spam of "AoE combos".

Yes, it's the stale bread we've already been served and—since Unleash and Abyssal Drain's budget has already been siphoned off into Stalwart Soul—would be serviceable, but I really don't see the appeal of having opening AoE burst reduced and AoE GCDs made less modular by turning a class's AoE into a two-button/-two GCD of still singular decision.

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That's how it is at Lv 40 for all the other tanks; it just feels extremely out of place. Still I think I understand since DRK mostly spams Flood once they get it in trash pulls. If we wanted to make AoE Combos simply one button, then they'd all be circles regardless of what it is. In fact, it'd open up slots for some better abilities they can add now that I think about it, so thank you for this insight.

Seems DRK got shafted on this expansion, look forward for the 7.0 rework. The new skills looks so "more of the same" that i didnt even noticed them with the animation update. Really hope that it plays much better than it looks because right now saying "underwhelming" is being generous and is not a matter of numbers

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

look forward for the 7.0 rework.

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Naw I'm good lmao

lmao im here waiting for the ninininini salt.

So DRK will only get a new action when uses salted earth, a new attack for fray and the freaking Delirium is going to stay as a freaking inner release copy this time every 60s and 3 fell spillers.

Dissapointment it's getting short, i still have to see the whole flow but im not surprised they didnt listen to us again, delete Delirium.

I'm done. drk is dead to me. Devs might as well delete the job if they won't take time to look into it's problem will save me the trouble of getting it to 90 for the achivements

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

That's how it is at Lv 40 for all the other tanks; it just feels extremely out of place.

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Fair enough. I just wish we were more willing look at what's leveled stale, rather than solely at the nail still standing. That's not to say any job should go without involved and interesting play in ST or AoE or whatever else for significantly longer than any other job. Rather, I just think AoE combos do us a disservice by shushing that discussion with a one-style-fits-all barebone answer.

Their benefits, moreover, aren't new or unique; they merely take what other options could otherwise more intuitively and interestingly fit. Heck, just look at the presently single-target skills we have across our tanks: the majority look like cleave attacks. That's all the more case when we consider lost skills like Power Slash and its shockwave, Scourge, Delirium, Savage Blade, Shield Swipe, etc. It's not as if we've been at a loss for varied seemingly-AoE weaponskill (or spell, in DRK's weirdly disadvantaged case) animations.

The benefit of separate rigid rotations for AoE skills, too, are debatable at best. It's a system of constraints. If you use an ST skill, you are effectively locked out of AoE for 2 further GCDs; if you cast an AoE, you're effectively locked out of ST for 1 further GCD. Such does technically add depth, but that addition is far less, generally, than what would be provided by the nuance available to deliberately mixing-and-matching between two skill-sets (AoE and ST), hybridized skills with fitting under-mechanics (presently vague for brevity--I apologize), or similarly "open" options that nonetheless have a context-dependent optimal course.

Imagine, for instance, if every AoE skill were removed (at least, as simple AoE [generator] attacks) and slashing skills were simply allowed to... slash, actually cleaving as they appear to. There'd be some few cases wherein you'd miss the ammo-in-2-GCDs of GNB's AoE combo or the quick buff extension of Mythril Tempest, but on the whole, very, very little would change insofar as actual decision making. Now, imagine then if the AoEs were then returned, not as a 2-or-more enemies replacement for single-target skills, but a real decision -- or even as a utility skill of sorts. Perhaps Overpower would have a chance based on recent potency dealt (and enemy stats) to slam the enemy to the ground. Perhaps Total Eclipse would be a quick, but not always the most efficient, way to burn through Sword Oath charge. Perhaps Unleash would prime enemy targets to take further magic damage from your attacks (at least, those with a shadowy aspect) to enemies nearby and Stalwart Soul would be charged by, well, Soul charged, while Blood Weapon would give your skills alternate, red-bladed animations and increased reach and reduced fall-off in their cleaves. That's spitball pipedream BS, of course, but that's also the thematic ground that AoE combos have already dammed upstream of us.

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Still I think I understand since DRK mostly spams Flood once they get it in trash pulls.

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As they should, so long as that's what the kit obliges. For the purposes of this thread, though, the only pertinent question is whether the kit should oblige that, leaving Flood/Edge largely a non-decision (Edge for a single enemy, Flood for multiple).

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If we wanted to make AoE Combos simply one button, then they'd all be circles regardless of what it is.

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Not necessarily. Look at those players who macro in hotbar- (and thereby skill-) swaps to achieve that same effect. Even working without direct support, it's not as if it's particularly difficult for them to manage, say, a conal opener into a radial second step in their AoE combo. Which of the two AoE shapes is better is subjective, even, so long as the conal has at least slightly greater radius than the radial (360-degree) AoE to compensate for the lost angle. Personally, I tend then to prefer conals, as I'll almost always have enemies grouped to one side of me and I appreciate that bit of extra range. (Ideally, though, I'd make the conal AoEs target-less, but then separately allow people to squelch target-less combat animations in-city.)

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In fact, it'd open up slots for some better abilities they can add now that I think about it

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That's pretty much my hope, yep: more depth and options in the AoE skills themselves or room for such through new skills that'd take their place.

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

I'm done. drk is dead to me. Devs might as well delete the job if they won't take time to look into it's problem will save me the trouble of getting it to 90 for the achivements

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Same. Only leveling it if there is anything for leveling all jobs and then dropping it. Unbelievable.

I still need to look into the entire skill list, but it does not look good for DRK. Aside from the Salted Earth and Fray changes, it looks mostly the same, which isn't good.

I may end up dropping the Job for PLD.

RIP Drk Im out still the same just with some touch ups. Let me be clear I will look at the skills when EW drops to see if its really just that...BUT and thats a bigger then 2B leggings if nothing else worth bothering with Im out ill just main GND or WAR they seem to catch my eyes right now.