Gunbreaker starting level

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense at all. You don't need to spend hours and hours between 1-30 to learn the job. Pardon my French, but you don't learn shit during those levels.

Again, it's all about actually reading what your skills do and comprehending. You don't need to waste hours and hours with an incomplete skillset. In fact, that accomplishes the exact opposite. You get used to one way of doing things with an incomplete skill set, and then when you get the full skill set, you have to completely relearn your rotations and combos.

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Maybe not hours but running a few duties can help, everyone's way of learning is different after all. I say this as we still get WHMs spamming Cure III because they think a higher number means it's the better version of the spell, mute BRDs barely using songs, SMNs spamming Ruin II, DRG's avoiding using aoes on mobs.....

Honestly the list goes on but it just goes to show that reading the information about the actions is not always enough, it's putting them in to a proper scenario when you see the pros and cons of your actions, and also being seen by other players who notice the lack of certain things being done and give advice on how a player can handle their job more effectively.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Maybe not hours but running a few duties can help, everyone's way of learning is different after all. I say this as we still get WHMs spamming Cure III because they think a higher number means it's the better version of the spell, mute BRDs barely using songs, SMNs spamming Ruin II, DRG's avoiding using aoes on mobs.....

Honestly the list goes on but it just goes to show that reading the information about the actions is not always enough, it's putting them in to a proper scenario when you see the pros and cons of your actions, and also being seen by other players who notice the lack of certain things being done and give advice on how a player can handle their job more effectively.

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Actually, your examples are the perfect illustration as to why forcing leveling DOESN'T help.

You see, all those WHM, BRD, SMNs that don't know how to play? They have been "not knowing how to play" for a long time. They don't know how to play because they don't take the time to understand their skills. They just play. And I guarantee a lot of the bad players have been playing since level 1.

Yes, everyone learns differently... that doesn't really matter though. Just because some people can't learn by reading and comprehending their skills doesn't mean you should force "tutorial levels" on people who get by perfectly fine by reading and comprehending their skills. (I know you're not necessarily suggesting starting at 1 or 30 or something ridiculous like that... just for the other guy's benefit)

The only way someone gets better at their job is if they put the effort into doing so. Forcing them to start at low level isn't going to force them to put the effort in to learn the job well. And seeing as jobs only fully come together at max level, you generally have to relearn all your combos and rotations at max level anyway.

You are right though, it's best to practice by running a few duties. But that's built into the item system and the MSQ system. People will get plenty of practice even starting from 60.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Actually you do learn. When I started healing, I learned a lot from player feedback in the beginning levels.

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Great. That's good for you. Not everyone else needs other players to help them to learn their job. Don't project your own experience and needs on others.

I've seen some people suggesting all jobs should start at level 1, which is absurd. As others have said, it doesn't take long to learn your job, and some people have played since level 1 and still don't know their job.

However, I would still be in favour of a level 50 start.

The vast majority of content takes place at the level caps. 50, 60, 70 and soon to be 80.
In addition, each job plays different at each level cap, and I do think it's worth players getting themselves accustomed to each caps skillset to some degree. Starting at 60 will cause a lot of people to just skip the level 50 skillset entirely (and I mean far more people than those who just never get good at their jobs) building their skills and hotbars without taking level 50 content into account, and leading to poor play in that content.
Additionally it could mean that the devs don't even build the job very well at level 50, cutting their skills back even further than the current jobs, and making that content nearly unbearable for those who hate to play low level stuff.
It would also allow all players to access all of the 'advanced' jobs at level 50 after completing ARR, which I think would be a good standard to stick to.
I don't really think those 10 levels will make such a huge difference to your leveling experience. Anyone who hasn't already picked up RDM and SAM will already have to do this anyway, and it's incredibly easy to level at this stage, and will be even easier if you get the aetheryte earings to increase your exp by 30% up to level 70.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

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I wasn't suggesting or enforcing anything, more just highlighting from my own experience and from some other players I've know who have benefited from doing some lower level duties and moving up rather than going straight from the starting level (if it's 30+). My gripe if anything would be someone let's say new to tanking and jumps straight to Gunbreaker with no previous tanking experience, I would hope they get some training beforehand whether it's lower duties or something else you know.

At the end of the day, it doesn't look like they're interested in changing the game's intro. It's set to the available classes at the start(?) of 2.0, which means you'll need to level a starter class (or boost it) before starting any of the new jobs, and that's why these new jobs won't start at level 1 (aside from BLU due to its Limited nature).

Now, if they ever get to rework the game to the point that classes are removed/reworked and/or changing the intro, then there might be a possibility of being able to start a new character with any current or new jobs at level 1, but that's a slim possibility.

Either way we will get players that level via fates and Palace of the Dead so starting at one or at 60 would make no difference.
I am glad they already stated it will start at a later level because i will also be levelling the other job which hopefully is Dancer and my new main:)
A friend of mine who has never tanked is actually excited about Gunbreaker.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Actually you do learn. When I started healing, I learned a lot from player feedback in the beginning levels.

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You learn same stuff at novice mission.

The thing you missed out about this thread is, people are discussing a starting level over a job, which is only available for people who bought all expansions that gone through all of the MSQ.

Making a job lvl 1 for these people seems ridiculous, they knew the basics even before getting into the Heavenswards and probably tried to play a tank or a healer when reaching lvl 60-70.
You are giving a 60 lvl job for those who already are familiar with the game, not to newbies, who has 0 clue.

Since your performance is mostly knowledge of the duties you run and your skills, and the muscle memory, it wont help anyone to lvl it 1-80. One skill you get at lvl 70-80 could change the job gameplay by 180 degrees, that will make your 1-70 experience obsolete. Just like in a case of warrior, it is totally different job on lvl 70 than it is on lvl 50 or 60. Honestly it would make more good in the long run if we never had any lvls to begin with. :p

And to be honest again if someone doesnt want to learn, he will never learn, and if someone wants to he will get the job in 1 or 2 days of playing it and next week of few to create muscle memory for the job. There is nothing you could learn someone who is not whiling even to read the skill description or thinks the less skills he use the better.
What will making this job start at lvl 1 do is just annoy people who want to play it, nothing else. ;p
Going through satasha with few skills again, please no.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The thing you missed out about this thread is, people are discussing a starting level over a job, which is only available for people who bought all expansions that gone through all of the MSQ.

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Um...You don't need to finish a single quest before getting Shadowbringers...Just so you know.

Having classes start from level 1 allows players that are new to the game start with what they want, instead of having to spend dozens of hours leveling something they're going to scrap the moment they reach some arbitrary level.


There already is a mechanism to solve the problem of leveling these classes. Bonus experience based on the discrepancy between the current and maximum job on the account. What stops them from letting the new classes get like ten times more experience gaining several levels per dungeon run up till 60 or even 70 if you already have a lvl70 job?! That way new players can get started with the class they are interested in, learn it over their non-boosted (or not as boosted) leveling...while the people that want to join the "current" content with their "new mains" could still do it within a day.

Even better, make items every 10 levels tied to achievement for reaching X level with any class that offer an accessory (like a ring) that gives that big experience bonus for lower jobs. That way someone that wants to level a new class from lvl1 will be able to even with lvl70 or lvl80 job out there.

The reason why it's not like that is because that would require a lot of job quests and new gears if the class will be using unique set. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Um...You don't need to finish a single quest before getting Shadowbringers...Just so you know.

Having classes start from level 1 allows players that are new to the game start with what they want, instead of having to spend dozens of hours leveling something they're going to scrap the moment they reach some arbitrary level.


There already is a mechanism to solve the problem of leveling these classes. Bonus experience based on the discrepancy between the current and maximum job on the account. What stops them from letting the new classes get like ten times more experience gaining several levels per dungeon run up till 60 or even 70 if you already have a lvl70 job?! That way new players can get started with the class they are interested in, learn it over their non-boosted (or not as boosted) leveling...while the people that want to join the "current" content with their "new mains" could still do it within a day.

The reason why it's not like that is because that would require a lot of job quests and new gears if the class will be using unique set. Simple as that.

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I was speaking about someone who is new to the game, finishing MSQ is necessity if he want to play end game.