I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

*chuckle*

That may not be far off.

I do remember an old mention that we would eventually be able to defeat primals and then summon them on the field. It may have fallen by the wayside in the transferrance between 1.xx and ARR, but we may still be surprised by it, especially given what Iceheart revealed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I think it all boils down to what you prefer in storytelling. On one side, we have people who feel the localized English version is "cutting" important stuff out and should stick to the Japanese script where everything is explained. On the other side, we have people who prefer to keep the English script as is so that they can go along with the ride and come to their own conclusions along the way. Of course, there's more finer details in this debate, though it seems most keep coming back to the point of how things are explained to the viewer.

---

The problem is it can't afford to be about taste in storytelling. All of the cutscenes in this game are standard across all language versions, it is only the dialogue which differs. If, as a result of stylistic differences in the English version, we are not told something that later becomes important in the story we'll start seeing completely random story developments due to a lack of foreshadowing.

Think of it like this: A guy localizes a serialised book chapter by chapter as each is released. He makes some changes to one of the characters though; in the original version the character has personality A, in the localization he gets changed slightly to have personality B (because the guy thought it suited him better). Now a year down the line a new chapter is released for the guy to localize. In this chapter the character does something that makes perfect sense given personality A but no longer makes any sense at all for personality B. The localization now has a huge problem because the alterations no longer fit with the overall script.

The above is what will happen if the localization team continue to do as they're doing. They cannot drastically change characters between different versions without risking nonsensical events later on down the line. We've already seen examples of this: in the EN localization Haurchefant sees a personality transplant in 2.4 because the personality the localization team gave him prior to that made no sense when we came to his animations and behaviour in 2.4. The result was that a LOT of English speaking players became convinced he was tempered or something because he was suddenly acting 'strangely' compared to how he had up until that point.

If the localization team continues with this different version of Midgardsormr they will eventually hit a situation where he does something that makes no sense given his new personality or he will get a sudden personality transplant like Haurchefant because the team realised they wrote themself into a corner.

The point is we have had numerous problems because of this before but those were minor characters. We do not want to risk seeing something like this happen to a major character like Midgardsormr since he is looking to be central to the 3.0 story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roris

[H]e seals the Blessing because why not, he's a maymay spouting dickish dragon and now he rides on our shoulder or head because screw you he's a dragon...

---

Before I actually looked at the JP script this is pretty much what I thought was going on. I was incredibly confused. I feel like this was a huge misstep on the part of the localization team. I can forgive them for it because it's not like they meant to mess it up, but I'm not going to let it slip by without at least commenting on it. And now I have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roris

So in turn in the EN version he seals the Blessing because why not, he's a maymay spouting dickish dragon and now he rides on our shoulder or head because screw you he's a dragon,

---

This is what I walked away with from that scene too. Also felt like he was still an enemy. Though I'm usually a fan of the localizations flavorful translations this does feel like it went overboard. Reading the fan translation help make SO much more sense of whats going on.

I now worry this is gonna keep happening when speaking with dragons going forward. And how many other players out there who won't take the time to find this translation are going into the story with the wrong ideas now. A LOT of Final Fantasy fans play the series specifically for the story and characters. While admittedly it's not completely game breaking, for people really into the story it's very misleading. I'd rather not have to keep up with fan translations to follow the story.

I sugest we wait and see how things pan out in part 2 before we make any judgement calls. Things might end up not being as different as we currently think.

Incoming text dump (Durn limit!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiruke

God bless you people saying "all the information is there", especially even after reading the spoilerific link here: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

---

Line 1:

Quote:

---

JP: So you too possess the Echo. That is why the phantom form cannot win over you.
EN: By Her gifts has thou earned a moment's reprieve.

---

How old is Midgardsormr? I assure you he's run into someone else with the echo at some point in time. His line does not indicate it was sometimes recent so this is fruitless speculation and serves no purpose.

Line 2-3:

Quote:

---

JP: In that case, it is Hydaelyn's will that we shall converse. Tell me, why are you here?
This is true, the star in the northern skies burns with the valorous roar of my kin. This is the battlecry, calling to advance.
EN: Speak, mortal, and I shall listen.
Guided by a star...? Heh heh heh.

---

True, the laugh tells us nothing, and if he stopped talking here altogether we would be completely lost, however he does go on to state this exact thing in the next few lines, so it comes off as redudant to me so I appreciate the laugh more rather than him just repeating himself.

Line 4-6:

Quote:

---

JP: Their destination is Ishgard, home of the people who have forgotten fear and have sinned.
This is retribution! The people of Ishgard are blind to their sins. Their sins demand battle without end.
And yet more, they want to sin again. This is why my kin roars.
EN: My people have heard the song. Ishgard shall burn.
Sons must answer for their fathers' misdeeds.
We do not forget. We do not forgive.

---

Line 4 says its a past sin, line 5 says its a sin so bad that it cannot be forgiven, line 6 SEEMS to indicate that it will be a current sin, however.......

Line 7-9

Quote:

---

JP: You bid me to stop the war? You might possess the Echo, but you're just a human. I cannot grant such wish.
I have awoken to answer to the roar for it was not me who roared, but one of my seven sons.
As Ishgard doesn't want to repent, my child and their people will not delay the retribution. The land shall burn, their people shall die, the justice will be done.
EN: Seven children did I sire. One now singeth of retribution.
I rise to join in the chorus...
Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end.

---

Indicates that this is all still about their past sin, NOT a current one so the tone is NOT completely different and that "EN implies dragons are just angry people without a good reason." is not the case

Line 10:

Quote:

---

JP: This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!
EN: Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...

---

I'm not sure if you know how trickery works, but the surprise is evident on both translations. Sure he calls us normal, but who isn't normal compared to him?

Line 11:

Quote:

---

JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

---

So you say... "EN version muddies up the connotation that Midgarsormr is not just in accord with Hydaelyn but that he is ACTUALLY GIVING THE PC MORE POWER BY HER CONSENT" When the English version clearly states he's doing something by her consent? Like, they even use the word consent....

Line 12:

Quote:

---

JP: Very well. Then I shall test you!
EN: Fear not, mortal... I shall not harm thee...

---

Meh, I got nothing here English version is left vague and Japanese is specific... HOWEVER, using the remaining lines in the ENGLISH version, its clearly Midgardsormr is testing you, so....

Line 13-16:

Quote:

---

JP: The Dragonclaw has pierced you. By my power, it now locks away the blessing of light given by Hydaelyn.
Thus the light has also cast a shadow. Perhaps, even without my claw the light would grow dim one day.
I made a promise to Her. And so I shall not take your life.
EN: Heh heh heh. Mayhap thou thinkest me an oathbreaker?
Thou art mistaken. If thou comest to harm, it shall be by another's hand, not mine.
I did but strip thee of thy mistress's feeble blessing.

---

I did not get that he, as you put it, "DESTROYED" the blessing, but that he took it away. Something that is taken CAN be given back, which is essentially what the JP's "locks away" means. And he doesn't talk trash about Hydaleyn, you need to see how English works, he didn't say Hyadelyn was feeble, he said Hydaleyn's BLESSING was feeble, and the JP echoes that remark with "even without my claw the light would grow dim one day." Also in the English version I got the feeling he respected Hydaleyn, so I'm not sure where you got that he didn't.

Line 17-23:

Quote:

---

JP: However, you're a human. Like people of Ishgard, you're capable of a foolish crime. Do not think I spare your life for nothing.
This is my apparition, my avatar. From now on, it will go with you.
The avatar's eyes are my eyes. The avatar's ears are my ears. I will see what you can accomplish without the blessing of Light.
Make your destiny, special one. Break free from my claw with your own strength.
If you truly have special power, You can end the battle of judgement. This will be your trial.
My body will one day be reborn with the aether flowing in the land.
Overcome the trial then and bring the will of Light to people.
However, this will not be an easy path. Soon my kin will do battle with humanity. The roar of my children has already been heard in all of the land.
EN: Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more.
The convenant binds me to thee.
I shall watch... listen... and wait.
Fight and struggle, if be thy will.
Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp.
I drink of Her body, and thence doth mine own find new life.
When it hath grown whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.
The Dragonsong healdeth a beginning... and an end.

---

And you get off track again somehow here, the English implies that he is indeed testing you. When Misgardmor said "Fight and struggle, if be thy will" I even said aloud to myself (yes literally) "Oh so you're testing me man? Alright then"

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

My biggest points of difference were the nature of his resurrection and his role as an antagonist or ally. To the first point, it wasn't even slightly clear that he was resurrecting in response to the roars of his kin--I thought he was merely mocking the PC for following the stars (using divination to predict his coming) before admitting that, yes, he is returning to lead the war against Ishgard. Then, when he strips the PC of Hydaelyn's blessing, I thought he was just doing it because, 'f**k it, the blessing has gotten so weak anyway that I'll just make life more difficult for you!'

So yeah, nowhere close to the intended meaning that Midgardsormr wants to prepare the PC to became an even greater hero, one who could turn the tides of war, and also no reference to the fact that it was his seven sons who stirred him from slumber. Count me firmly in the 'Localization took this too far' camp.

I wish I could have a documentation of my voice chats via skype with my fiance, because both of us came to the conclusion that he wasn't "Just a dick" but was testing us for something, reading the jp script only confirmed that. The only difference we came to was that he felt that Hydaelyn's power wouldn't be enough, and so put us into a trial to see if we deserved his blessing as well, which isn't TOO terribly far off base.

Overall, I much prefer the EN version, simply because it ruins my opinion of the writers to see evverything spelled out clear for me, I'd rather have something that I can discuss and throw ideas around about, than a story that I can just say "Yeah, hey it said this. so no thinking for you!"

nb4 my opinion is discounted by the haters because of jp script.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

---

You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about other people's personal experiences. Myself and others have already said we came to those exact same conclusions during our original exposure to the English dialogue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrielleBeaudonet

no reference to the fact that it was his seven sons who stirred him from slumber.

---

The reference to one of his seven sons sending out the roar was literally in the text of the English.