More Raid content please!

It's amazing how this was posted on the first page, but conveniently omitted the part that contradicted with their argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(gaming)

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A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which either a very large number of people (larger than the normal team size set by the game), or a small number of people with exceptional skill, attempt to defeat a boss monster of a higher magnitude of difficulty than other monsters found within the game world. This type of objective is most common in MMORPGs, where the servers are designed to handle the number of users. In RTS games like StarCraft, the term is used differently; see Raid (military).

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A raid can be either multi-group content, OR extremely difficult normal group content. So please shut up now about how it only has one meaning.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Nothing else really, just what's classified under the Duty Finder, that's pretty much it and apparently that means a lot? Still doesn't make it multi party content but hopefully we'll get more in the future.

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What about multi-party content makes it and only it a raid? Despite what any MMO chooses to do or classify whatever content they wish as a raid, why will you two only accept multi-party content? However, regardless if that narrow and limited definition is all you will accept, the simple unalterable truth is that Coil is classified as a raid in this game and therefore it is a raid.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

What about multi-party content makes it and only it a raid? Despite what any MMO chooses to do or classify whatever content they wish as a raid, why will you two only accept multi-party content? However, regardless if that narrow and limited definition is all you will accept, the simple unalterable truth is that Coil is classified as a raid in this game and therefore it is a raid.

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It's pointless trying to convince them otherwise, as much as I hope they will see the error in their ways. I've been following this thread from the beginning and I agree with the point you made here, and that others have brought up before.

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Originally Posted by Gamma621

It's amazing how this was posted on the first page, but conveniently omitted the part that contradicted with their argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(gaming)

A raid can be either multi-group content, OR extremely difficult normal group content. So please shut up now about how it only has one meaning.

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Nice edit from today after an entire year of no edits whoever Nexicus is, surely that addition will finally make you win this thread and get praised by everyone.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

What about multi-party content makes it and only it a raid? Despite what any MMO chooses to do or classify whatever content they wish as a raid, why will you two only accept multi-party content? However, regardless if that narrow and limited definition is all you will accept, the simple unalterable truth is that Coil is classified as a raid in this game and therefore it is a raid.

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Because that's what most MMOs classify raids as, multi party content, this is a blatant WoW clone after all. Coil is classified as a raid under the DF most likely for convenience more than anything, apparently that makes people think it is one or that classifying anything as a raid makes that content larger or more important than it is, so keep believing.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Nice edit from today after an entire year of no edits whoever Nexicus is, surely that addition will finally make you win this thread and get praised by everyone.



Because that's what most MMOs classify raids as, multi party content, this is a blatant WoW clone after all. Coil is classified as a raid under the DF most likely for convenience more than anything, apparently that makes people think it is one or that classifying anything as a raid makes that content larger or more important than it is, so keep believing.

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Surely you must have missed the debunk done to your cause when it was posted originally several pages back.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Because that's what most MMOs classify raids as, multi party content, this is a blatant WoW clone after all. Coil is classified as a raid under the DF most likely for convenience more than anything, apparently that makes people think it is one or that classifying anything as a raid makes that content larger or more important than it is, so keep believing.

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Blatant WoW clone perhaps but this game classifies Coil as a raid therefore it is a raid, regardless of what most other MMOs you have played classify them as. How would your multi-party definition apply to WoW and their 10m raids? It is because dungeons are 5m party content? Does that make 10m a raid along with their 25 even though they are simply 1 giant party made up of 10 and 25 people? Why does it not apply to XIV and their 4m dungeons and 8m raid and 24m raid? Is it the term full party? Is it because 8 people also do trials and scenarios?

Gamma621, that bolded part is not done until the raid is (usually, though sometimes more, depending on raid mechanics) several expansions old, with the resulting growth in character power attendant to expansions in between the initial release of the raid, and the time the "small number of people" attempt it. Vishimtar, for example, was not one-grouped (the definition you are arguing for) for a couple years after DoN, though everyone who heard about it when it first happened was surprised that it even could be done. No one was too surprised when OMM was downed by a single group however, because people had been trying for some time.

A FF14:ARR similarity (though its not a perfect analogy) would result if SE ever decided to give in to the occasional request to allow people to solo dungeons without being level sync'd on down. At level 20 you probably could not solo Copperbell, but at level 40 you likely could.

SDaemon, there are three types of content : solo, group, and raid. Content cannot belong to more than one of those general classifications. Solo content is obvious - you are meant to be able to do it without help from anyone. Group content, apparently, is not so obvious - you are meant to do it with the help of just your group. Raid content, apparently, is causing that lack of obviousness in group content, because people here, prompted by SE's classification, are trying to blur the lines between group content and raid content. And raid content is content intended to be beaten by more than one group. Its that cut and dried.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

SDaemon, there are three types of content : solo, group, and raid. Content cannot belong to more than one of those general classifications. Solo content is obvious - you are meant to be able to do it without help from anyone. Group content, apparently, is not so obvious - you are meant to do it with the help of just your group. Raid content, apparently, is causing that lack of obviousness in group content, because people here, prompted by SE's classification, are trying to blur the lines between group content and raid content. And raid content is content intended to be beaten by more than one group. Its that cut and dried.

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There is not a rigid line to be made because it is as fluid as a developer wishes to make it. Coil is a raid because SE defines it as a raid for this game. It is that cut and dry.

I'd like to suggest a raid idea i and i beleive many others would enjoy.

1. a random gauntlet- This would be a raid where you have to advance 50 rooms. There will be a billboard per 10 rooms that gives you a hint on what your facing the first 1-4 would be trash mobs and the 5th would be miniboss or a boss from a random dungeon the next 6-10 would be boss with mini bosses from other dungeons.. Then the 10th floor would either be a random primal or a boss. This would all be randomized. This would be a raid where you wouldn't see people spamming for certian classes and jobs because This would require people to have everyjob.. It would fully use the job system to make it so you might need 3 healers 1 tank 4 dps . ect.

I just want a raid that forces me to level all my jobs to use them I don't get how we can have it to where we can level everyjob yet have to use 1 per raid making it almost useless i want to beable to make more party combos Then just this 2 tank 2 healer 4 dps ect.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Because that's what most MMOs classify raids as, multi party content, this is a blatant WoW clone after all. Coil is classified as a raid under the DF most likely for convenience more than anything.

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Coil is classified as raid under achievements Battle > Raids. so umm it's not really a convenience, its intended in the original design.

SE decided, after initially saying it was not a raid, to call it a raid. What their reasons were, frankly, is neither here nor there - nor does it really matter that they were wrong to call it a raid. What matters is that FF14 needs more raids, not one-group content misnamed raids. It needs more group content as well, don't get me wrong. But one raid is not enough!