Bard - they broke my job

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Originally Posted by lurkingPeanut

I only recently got my (used to be) favourite class to 60, and that's mainly because after getting WM the class just felt completely different and I just lost the motivation to play.

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My Bard is 60 and I encountered the same issues. So I went looking for a new main. Machinist is now my new main.

But not before getting a Dragoon & Ninja to 60 before I tried Machinist. So what I do now is if the dungeon is 52 and up I go Machinist and if lower I select Bard.

YMMV

(P.S. Now leveling a Monk which so far I like better than the Dragoon or Ninja. We will see what happens when I get him to 60)

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

That's sort of the other thing, do you personally think that mobility should be what differentiates the two jobs? I don't mind it being part of a differentiation, but it should not be the foundation.

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Yeah, and that's the crux of it - I emphatically do not think that mobility should be the thing that differentiates the two classes. My absolute core issue with WM is that cast times are fundamentally incompatible with BRD's playstyle, and there's no way of finessing that into something workable. And if BRD retained its freedom of movement and double-OGCDs, nobody would ever want to play MCH because of GB. Gauss Barrel reeks of a rushed compromise that snowballed into the even more rushed and compromised WM because SE bit off more than they could chew when designing MCH and had no better way of making it a viable class than by making its closest competitor actively less fun.

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Originally Posted by twoheadedenby

. And if BRD retained its freedom of movement and double-OGCDs, nobody would ever want to play MCH because of GB.

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They already deal with this in regards to BLM and SMN. Two casters that play drastically differently (and one that's more notoriously calling themselves Punished Mage, a Fallen Enochian.) but it still appeals to some players despite it being different and arguably more difficult for the same reward. It's a weak reasoning to justify that as the reason for making BRD/MCH so similar to each other, especially when one is a new job for the expansion

What I mean is - GB would discourage people from playing MCH over BRD if nothing else was different. The problem is that the classes are already so damn similar in mechanics. It would take a drastic reconception of MCH as a job to meaningfully differentiate it from BRD along any axis other than mobility right now.

Having unlocked WM recently to see what the fuss was about, I can understand the frustration players have with it now. To me the loss of mobility and cast times didn't bother me so much (having been a SMN main during 2.0-early HW), but the inability to weave as before was an issue.

I found it interesting that, looking at BRDs HW skills they got a Contagion and Fester-like moves (IJ, Sidewinder) but what they also needed was a Ruin II equivalent (call it 'Light Shot', for example) as well. Maybe they could rework Blunt Arrow to do this, I dunno. Failing that, they need to remove or rework River of Blood. Transplant that concept to PLDs Shield Swipe instead, since it's based on a proc mechanic.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

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Well some grab feint from lnc to act as filler during movement. Not TP efficient but can work like that. And yeah IJ basically a 60 TP reapply of dots(so it's more like contagion-like since contaigon just extends them, this actually reapplys them with a fresh timer), while sidewinder is fester - increases in potency relying on what dots up. Would be nice if flaming arrow could be counted in that as well as a little extra bonus but I doubt that will ever happen.

But with ~600sks it's much more fluid overall so I'm always aiming for around that sks range. Never really thought sks would be something I would be looking at as a bard and was always avoiding it, now it's acc cap, ~600sks(preferably without food), crit >>>> det

Say does anyone know what the exact changes to straight shot were, I see no difference thus far.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Say does anyone know what the exact changes to straight shot were, I see no difference thus far.

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If you get a straighter shot proc, the proc shows up as soon as your heavy shot cast finishes, rather than after the heavy shot "hits" if you know what I'm talking about. You can react to them the same way you can react to them with WM off.

The TP cost was also reduced by 10 which was a pretty nice buff, though a slap in the face to PLD players since SE said they'd help with Paladin's TP issues, and somehow managed to give more help to BRD than they gave PLD.

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Originally Posted by aabe

If you get a straighter shot proc, the proc shows up as soon as your heavy shot cast finishes, rather than after the heavy shot "hits" if you know what I'm talking about. You can react to them the same way you can react to them with WM off.

The TP cost was also reduced by 10 which was a pretty nice buff, though a slap in the face to PLD players since SE said they'd help with Paladin's TP issues, and somehow managed to give more help to BRD than they gave PLD.

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Ah I see, that's "better?", though I feel Bard could've, and should've gotten other changes, that one seems a little weak. I'd say a change to Wanderer's Paean and maybe another proc, or a change to the songs would of been better, but what do I know, I just play the game, lol.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Ah I see, that's "better?", though I feel Bard could've, and should've gotten other changes, that one seems a little weak. I'd say a change to Wanderer's Paean and maybe another proc, or a change to the songs would of been better, but what do I know, I just play the game, lol.

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Before the change, there was no way you'd be able to catch a SS proc. You could even have an instance where you cast heavy shot, it procs and you're casting straight shot right after because you're refreshing the buff. In that instance, you'd still get the cast time, and there's a fun little glitch where it delays your oGCD usage right after the casted-straighter shot for some reason (which shouldn't be the case). It's worse than BLM in the sense that you couldn't even buffer with an oGCD inbetween the heavy shot and your next weapon skill to "force refresh" for the proc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbqbjJq6-lg

I uploaded a video to show it. I'm using oGCDs inbetween all my heavy shots to force a refresh to see if I got a proc, and even with that, the proc buff doesn't register in time.