We need more ways to make gold in this game.

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Originally Posted by Iskander

RMTs make business in situations like this where there is a significant lack of economic gil influx. When people can longer sustain their characters, they will either leave or resort to buying gil from the RMTs. If SE is able to implement a system with economic gil generation is easier to compensate for the gil sinks, RMTs will have a harder time making bank because gil is more accessible without them. There will be those that give in to temptation because they are either lazy, or just really really bad at managing money. However, RMTs will only get worse the worse the gil deficit gets.

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Originally Posted by Merix

The current model is a RMTs dream mmo. This game is currently doing everything it possibly can to encourage RMT.

Unless something is done about the economy soon RMT will be required to play the game.

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The best part is it's so hard to make gil because they wanted to discourage RMT by making it hard to make gil. Yet, all they did was encourage RMT more and make more people want to buy gil and make it easier for RMT to make money off players.

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Originally Posted by Lucroarna

Im level 50 and have almost 600k from selling items. There's enough new players, and enough people doing quests that gold isn't going to disappear. Honestly, I think all of the points being made here are secretly just people being extraordinarily lazy, and asking for FFXIV to be a WoW clone.

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That signature in conjunction with your post is so appropriate I actually found it a little amazing.

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Originally Posted by Lucroarna

Just posting something here to bash WoW, it took 8 years away from me and I hate it!

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I can see that, no need to bring your hate here though.

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Originally Posted by Aketo

From my experience...

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The market cost of the items wont let you make a profit off the leves as it stands because the market is too inflated. As gil exists the economy, the market price of items will drop, and the more worth it the leve gil will be till it stabilizes. (They are also used a lot by leveling crafters) Also considering the cost of nq items off merchant npcs even my non legacy server is infalted by what seems to be SE standards.

Sacrificial gear thats made over and over should only take 0-1 repairs to crunch into materia and then replace it with another item (that is made purely from gathered things). I think its possible to keep replacing equipment as the previous turns into materia and save gil on repairs. Does mean the fancy UBER gear is put in reserve for the really difficult activities though.

Easy to get dark matter and very painless player repairs would go a long way to lowering the gil sink in an interesting manner.

I can't get over the fact that people think farming, and selling items on the market to make money think the economy is fine.

People aren't complaining that making money is hard, its the fact there is NOTHING that generates gil for the economy at all. There is little to zero ways to "spawn" gil into the game. End game monsters drop 1 gil SOMETIMES, selling items to merchants is worthless, and successfully doing raids and dungeons DRAINS your money because of repairs.

*edit* Almost forgot that fates give you like 40 gil, and leves only give you a couple hundred IF you turn in HQ items. There needs to be more ways, have monsters drop gil on death or something simple.

Ignoring what all of you posted for the past 60+ pages... I'll just reply with the OP and say its true... I started leveling my archer/bard from level 42 and I had 34k in gil... by time I made it to 50 after paying for repairs I had close to 14k left. Even running dungeons when my gear gets under 75% damaged repairs already cost about 3k to do full repairs.

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Originally Posted by Iskander

RMTs make business in situations like this where there is a significant lack of economic gil influx.

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Naive. RMT make business regardless of the gil input rates. The only difference is the units sold in. In games where money is easy to make, the units will be large, in millions, 10s of millions. Why? Because it is worthless from all the RMT exploitation of easy inputs. And there will always be those pitiful humans who pay for gil or pay for leveling (and get themselves hacked as a result).

In every game that RMT has destroyed, the end result is the same - Runaway inflation, caused by uncontrolled generation of in game currency, usually involving NPCing items or repeatable quests.

Hyper-inflation will never occur with the current system which I see as a good thing. As long as there is a small net increase in overall gil in the economy, which none of us has any idea of unless SE releases the figures, all should be good.
Bottom line is you can't stop RMT or their supporting lackeys. They are cockroaches or the bacterial slime that grows in the sewers.
It is impossible to. But if their impact on the economy is minimal (read inflation), then their presence can be ignored.

In a nutshell; Do you want 5 million gil items? Or do you want 5000 gil ones?

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Originally Posted by tymora

Naive. RMT make business regardless of the gil input rates. The only difference is the units sold in. In games where money is easy to make, the units will be large, in millions, 10s of millions. Why? Because it is worthless from all the RMT exploitation of easy inputs. And there will always be those pitiful humans who pay for gil or pay for leveling (and get themselves hacked as a result).


Hyper-inflation will never occur with the current system which I see as a good thing. As long as there is a small net increase in overall gil in the economy, which none of us has any idea of unless SE releases the figures, all should be good.

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When someone can't even afford to repair their gear after 20+ fates there is something seriously wrong, mind you I don't want hyper inflation but the current system is not one I would call a balanced economy at all.

I could not care less about the economy and the price mark for goods, to be honest - I just think people should have a right to sustain their daily activity without having to slog at it. Hence, I want Dark Matter back (and maybe the ability to repair equipment for other people).

FFXI had a screwy wealth distribution too, but at least you didn't have to foot repair bills, just dynamis/limbus entry fees (which were completely optional activities), and food (at least until colibris and Abyssea came along). Designing a FF11 economy with constant repair bills just seems vindictive. Who cares if items on the market sell for 5000 gil or 5,000,000 gil if you're already worrying about the compulsory 1500 gil it takes to repair your stuff so that you can join your LS in doing activities? It's not like you can negotiate with the repair NPC.

before start, sorry for my english, i'm french and come here. we have the same topic open on our forum.
a lot of us have the same concern about the generation of gil at level 50.

some point to add to the op statement.

most of the monster 45+ humanoid don't drop anything, exept the small drop rate for the imperial monster the other one don't drop stuff. (i did test out in natalan for 1 hours 0 drop, item or gil)
for a battle class it's impossible to generate gil (and we don't talk about sell/buy stuff on AH). like the op have said every action a battle class can do at 50 will only lead to a net loss of gil.

indeed we can try to get gil from gathering and crafting class. but not everybody love do this... and if the game force a player to do something for be able to enjoy the game... it's a huge error of game design.

I wrote a nice post 1414 characters long but it fails to be submitted. :(

So I am going just to state that inflation looks worse to me than a gil lack. There are ways to make gil into the game. Even OP admits that leveling new characters does it. Since that it all boils down to wealth distribution between those who are willing to level new characters (or create gil in some other way) and those who do not.

Also, I want to remind that many opinions in the thread are biased, since those who are able to maintain cash positive balance are much less inclined to post their thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Antalus

Also, I want to remind that many opinions in the thread are biased, since those who are able to maintain cash positive balance are much less inclined to post their thoughts.

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Opinions are, by their definition, biased. I have a daily positive cash flow, your ad hominem reasoning isn't going to work here.

It is the nature of opinions that even someone who hasn't reached level 50 yet is still entitled to make a statement on what they believe end-game economics is like. (Just as an aside to your argument, character creation is currently locked on most servers). That doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong, but it's by no means a good source of credibility. I find if you respect other people's opinions, rather than just dismissing them as "just biased opinions", they will take more kindly to listening to your own.

You have to realize that eventually there will be more people who have completed the quests than are starting them. Every single person who isn't doing a main quests or quest that gives decent gil rewards is sucking gil out of the economy. That number is GROWING. The gil whirlpool will only get bigger as the servers mature and more people have reached either a stagnant time in questing or finishing it. To say making extra characters will solve it is being naive. There is really no benefit to creating a second character when you can just change your job. To force people to grind the time sinks (character building quests/storyline) just to get extra gil is ludicrous. The problem could be solved just as easily be introducing dynamics that have similar time sinks that are repeatable for them to do on their first character. The economic design is obviously flawed and people here are just wanting square to confirm what they've seen and tell us they are in the process of solving it.

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Originally Posted by Antalus

I wrote a nice post 1414 characters long but it fails to be submitted. :(

So I am going just to state that inflation looks worse to me than a gil lack. There are ways to make gil into the game. Even OP admits that leveling new characters does it. Since that it all boils down to wealth distribution between those who are willing to level new characters (or create gil in some other way) and those who do not.

Also, I want to remind that many opinions in the thread are biased, since those who are able to maintain cash positive balance are much less inclined to post their thoughts.

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I hate leveling. It's not fun, i hate gathering, its not fun, i hate crafting, its not fun. A lot of people feel like me. Unless something is done then this game will fail because there will be a mass exodus of people. Do we wait for a 3rd remake or just say the game is a failure?

Selling materia you build while doing whatever else (including dungeons) you want is also an option to extract gil from the market. As is killing stuff and selling items (and making materia while doing so). What do you find fun anyway? Sounds like you only like a small fraction of the game and want to change everything else other A LOT people like for your convenience. You might then find it fun, but youll create a helluva lot of pissed people over it.

(I still dont think the economy will deflate to an unsustainable level, explained in my previous posts)

i will not go as far than said is a failure, more that the balance in the drop and gil generation is a bit off.
they need to balance it, since some people will get every class to max.
but that means people that will focus on something are left out...

ps: the trouble is most people think they have enough gil, because they get it from the market, sadly the market fund are not infinite, when more player will arrive to the point to get 50 and have finish the main story and all the quest they can get... the gil generation will be bad... if not negative for battleclass.

@Aixa: the market don't generate Gil, like said by people before me, it transfer gil from a player to another player. with the tax fee, the repair of level 50 equipement, this number can't go up, it can only go down.
Gil generate from the leves are limited, from the monster none, from the dungeon, before 45 it's decent, after it's negative.

what op and many have talk about is not gil you can earn, but gil you will add to the server. like said before 45 it's still possible... after... you will not add gil to the server, repair, teleport,.... will make your gil disappear.

Remove repair costs completely. Problem solved. Or you know, make repairs the cost of FAILURE, not the cost of DOING THINGS. In GW2 for example you don't lose durability unless you actually die.

Reposting from a different thread to increase visibility.

Personal ideas for introducing Gil and limiting deflation.

1. Level 45+ fates have a chance to give 0-2 Allagan Gold pieces to players involved.
2. Every chest in a dungeon will give 1-3 Allagan pieces to all players, respective of the dungeons level range.
3. Double the Gil given by 45+ Leves.
4. Reduce the durability loss for combat actions on gear. No reason that dying should be easier on gear then being in combat.

Most the problems facing the game right now are due to SE's paranoia over RMT and a distinct lack of end game testing. They were quiet on the server issues while working on a solution for that, hopefully they are doing something about this as well.

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Originally Posted by Aixa

Selling materia you build while doing whatever else (including dungeons) you want is also an option to extract gil from the market. As is killing stuff and selling items (and making materia while doing so). What do you find fun anyway? Sounds like you only like a small fraction of the game and want to change everything else other A LOT people like for your convenience. You might then find it fun, but youll create a helluva lot of pissed people over it.

(I still dont think the economy will deflate to an unsustainable level, explained in my previous posts)

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Please save yourself further embarrassment and just stop posting.

the solution for avoid RMT, is not to make gil hard to get... but make it worth nothing... offer and demand.
if the gil are not a trouble, why purchase gil?

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Please save yourself further embarrassment and just stop posting.

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Ad hominen, how original. Not relevant to the discussion at all. The discussion is about whether the economy is inflating or deflating. Not the methods you find fun in making gil or personal attacks.

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Originally Posted by Aixa

Ad hominen, how original. Not relevant to the discussion at all. The discussion is about whether the economy is inflating or deflating. Not the methods you find fun in making gil or personal attacks.

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This is why you were told to save yourself the embarrassment. The topic is not about the economy inflating or deflating. It's about finding ways to create gil since the gil sinks take more gil out of the economy than lv 50 players are bringing into the economy. Current methods of creating gil are not sufficient to cover the costs of the gil sinks.

Agree. My gil gets less and less everyday. Running levequests doesn't cover the loses. I'm not interested in crafting or gathering.

No, we dont. Learn to craft and you will be fine. Just because just about everything else in this game is mindlessly easy doesnt mean money has to be easy too!

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

No, we dont. Learn to craft and you will be fine. Just because just about everything else in this game is mindlessly easy doesnt mean money has to be easy too!

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Read the first post in the thread, then try again.

My strong suggestion would be to increase the amount of gold earned though dungeons enough so we can have a positive economy. FATEs are too good already, leaves are used for other things and increasing gold can have a negative effect on leveling alts/profession.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

No, we dont. Learn to craft and you will be fine. Just because just about everything else in this game is mindlessly easy doesnt mean money has to be easy too!

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Again, the thread is about macroeconomics, not personal finance.

Second, people who do not like crafting should not be forced to craft just to get by - and this is coming from someone who's put 19 levels into DoW/DoM classes, but over 160 levels into DoH/DoL classes. This is a game that you do for fun, not an unpaid job. If you're doing something that is a normal function of the game - say, running dungeons and raids - then you should be able to break even doing so. Otherwise, the game is poorly designed.

Remember, that just because the game currently works a certain way does not mean that's the right way to do it. Otherwise, this would still be the terrible game square launched originally.

Repairs need to be reworked :
- less cost for repair
- allow crafter to repair stuff from other player and have Grade 5 Dark Matter cost less.
OR
- increase gil reward x5 for combat leves.
OR
- make trash mob in instance drop gils or items that can be sold to NPC for gils.

The more end game gear you get, the more gil you loose everyday.
Crafting/Gathering is no exception.

Having to remove gear to make profit is just unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Deusteele

Most the problems facing the game right now are due to SE's paranoia over RMT and a distinct lack of end game testing. They were quiet on the server issues while working on a solution for that, hopefully they are doing something about this as well.

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all they did was create the ideal environment for gold farmers, if they dont fix things whoever can write a quest bot will make a few million off this game

Crafting won't make you money when the Adventuring classes are all too broke spending their money solely on repairs to buy your wares.

So, has any fired up the Camate signal yet?

If the only way to make gil is personal finance then how is the gil for all that personal finance going to come into the community? Certainly wont be from us DoW, We don't need your armor, We don't need your weapons, We don't really need your food either, We could use your repairs but you can't repair our items. We however do need to repair our items so every time we run a dungeon 4.5k will disappear from the game.

Anytime anyone is dumb enough to buy your market wares we also lose 10% from the game. Of course outside of DoL/DoH no one should really need anything from you other than the relic base and the materia to meld into it. Since all the other materia is pointless and can't be on unique gear.

What a great economy.

I have to wonder, what was Gil making like in 1.0? Obviously some were able to get to the cap before Realm Reborn launched, but how does it differ now? was it all leves and slow progression through the market? or was Gil easier to come by, or cost less during repairs? The former I'd doubt, but I can't say for sure.

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Originally Posted by Jintaru

I have to wonder, what was Gil making like in 1.0? Obviously some were able to get to the cap before Realm Reborn launched, but how does it differ now? was it all leves and slow progression through the market? or was Gil easier to come by, or cost less during repairs? The former I'd doubt, but I can't say for sure.

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People just sold what dropped to the vendor and it sold for a decent amount of gil but with how paranoid SE became of RMTs they decided to make them worthless to vendors but at the same time cornered the players completely from making any gil in the game. If this isn't addressed by next week then most people will probably just quit playing the game because they will be to broke to continue playing the game Yoshi has made.

The only reason I covet my Gil right now is for the inevitable housing. if 3X leveling to 50 roughly 900K, trying to earn that is going to be tedious, outside of farming low level mats naked and selling off the profits on the market.

Momodi was right we'll all be in our small clothes before long. Since that's the only way to actually go positive in gil and seals xD

I bought 6 poisoning potions for 20 gil from the market board and turned them with a leve into 285 gil. I created 265 gil in less than 1 minute.
265 gil the other who sold the potions don't got ^^

The design for getting wealthier currently seems to be doing crafting and gathering aka working for gil through leves. Guests are kinda you doing work for the npcs. Both of these options have restricted or limited gain. None can get rich by just farming.

After some of the horror stories I've heard, I plan on hoarding what gil I have for as long as possible for repairs. Once I inevitably run out and can't repair my gear any further, there won't be much left to do but quit the game entirely, so I'd like to keep that hoard as healthy as possible for as long as possible.

With no way to have a consistent, healthy flow of gil coming in, I can't help but feel like there's an invisible doom timer sitting above my character's head.

I really don't enjoy crafting classes, and it's not like I want to have enough gil to be crazy rich or anything. I just want enough to be able to play the damn game.

This situation is pretty dire and has promptly killed my motivation to log in because every single run I do, my Gil simply depletes. It's ridiculous, that at some point I will literally be "out of gas" to do anything, with no way to possibly refill that tank.

By the way I have a lot of money as it stands now, and I can still recognize that this is a huge issue.