Updated benchmark

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

So all the stories where people's being stalked?

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Is the stalking really a mass phenomenon? If not then it has nothing to do with "the FF14 community" because some mental sick individuals do something bad.




Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Is the stalking really a mass phenomenon? If not then it has nothing to do with "the FF14 community" because some mental sick individuals do something bad.




Cheers

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Well, I've seen more people post about that here than in WoW.
Or any other MMO for that matter.

And it's true that the commuity at whole isn't wrong.
Same goes for any game, even WoW.
There are more good people in WoW than bad.
But since it's always the worse that gets the attention that's how people outside views it.

((Cross posted with the Au Ra thread))

If this was posted already, apologies - I haven't come across it.
So, I'm still trying to make this work (still not happy, but trying) and came across horn 'issues'

1) For face 4, the horns now look even less like they are attached. (EW on left, New Bench on right)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

1a) DT v11 with same angle as the EW one:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

1b: Same angle as 1a, but with light setting two - the shadow is just... looks like her horns are burnt:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

As you can see it was there in EW, but in DT it just looks even less like they are something that grew out of her head.

2) From the side. EW feels more blended and DT feels like it was just stuck on with the color and text vastly mis-matched. (Not saying EW was perfect, just saying it stood out less to me)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

3) Xaela suffers from this as well, though far less obvious and very hard to see form the front side view:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

4) Adding face 3 since their horns also sit on preexisting scales. Though they still look like they were an added afterthought, they don't have a really obvious ridge where they connect to her head.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

5) There is also a very noticeable seam with the optional scales on the chin. It was there in EW, but I'm guessing the lower poly count actually helped it blend in a little better. Now it is a very distinct seam at the chin line.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

I know this texture is vastly different (and harder to make seamless), but this is the equivalent of their ear, I feel like it shouldn't look pasted on and the optional scales should be seamless with the default ones.

I'm really missing the original 3 lip shape

I've been trying to do comparisons of all my characters with the trailers. I'll try to get those properly organised tomorrow.

For tonight, one thing that has stood out to me is that while my face 3 Miqo'te in many ways looks very good in the new graphics, it is ruined (to me) by the addition of heavy eyeliner to a character who previously wore no makeup at all. It's out of character for him.

At a more general, less character-specific level, it creates a very fuzzy edge to the dark shadow under the eyelid, which previously just gave the impression of thick eyelashes, and I think it is detrimental to the look of the character.

Additionally, the length of the eyelashes has been much reduced, which I think is disappointing and it also further ruins the illusion of long, thick eyelashes created by the shadow under the eye. In the current appearance, when he shuts his eyes and you can see the long eyelashes clearly against his cheeks, it reinforces that impression that those long lashes are the cause of the shadow, when actually it's a lot of trickery going on with the model.

This also applies to G'raha since he uses the same face, so I'm worried about what he will look like too, and I believe it may have been applied to the other male Miqo'te faces but I haven't directly compared them yet.


Comparison of my character:
https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...580dde5791.jpg


And as I have previously posted in another thread, a photoshopping of what I think actually needs to happen with the Miqo'te eyes - don't add blurry makeup, but fill in the missing part of the eye, and use the eyelashes to cast shadow on the eye.

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...2462d70b71.jpg

Blue and yellow lines indicate the position of the eyelid and the edge of the visible eye surface in each image.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...580dde5791.jpg

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I believe the new lashes were just placed at a different angle than they were previously. You can see the way they curve outward at the outer corners of the eyes with a fair bit more length than those same areas had previously (there's some overlap with the lower lashes, of course, but those are still shorter than the upper, so it isn't their length we're looking at).

I don't believe this face suffers from the issues that face 4 and a couple of the female miqo'te faces (1 and 3, I believe?) have currently, where the lashes will clip through the lower lid during emotes like /reflect, so this was probably just an aesthetic choice. One probably made just because it's also G'raha's face lol. I can tell you face 4's lashes have seen no noticeable changes like 3's (other than that they now look more faint, sadly).

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Originally Posted by plasmacutter

Just updating here that my report for the lalafell "resting frown" has been accepted.

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Mine have been moved to "Insufficient Information"...?
I see you have a duplicate of your bug report in there, I'm not sure what exactly was different besides specifying the date and time the bug was occurring (which is entirely irrelevant???)

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Originally Posted by plasmacutter

Just updating here that my report for the lalafell "resting frown" has been accepted.

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If they put it in “accepted bugs,” does that mean that they consider it an error on the list to be fixed? Or just that they’re investigating it? (I’ve never submitted a bug report…)

Good thing you mentioned it will affect Tartaru, that probably made someone notice it more!

Another day gone, another day closer to potentially losing some of my characters forever... I'm at the point of just frantically screenshotting my pile of glamours that I want to post on Eorzea Collection while I've still definitely got the characters to wear them.

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

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Is it possible? Yes. Would someone do it? Highly unlikely...mostly because why would you purposely want the ugly textures back in the game. I can understand your character model but textures like outfit? Someone would have to purposely create blurry, ugly and pixilated textures on purpose...for the newer outfits.
For your character though you can easily get that back to the 2.0 version but you would have to...do you know what to achieve that.

But.. I doubt SE would consider it since you're asking them to downscale textures which is quite honestly a waste of time to please a very, very small set of people and doing this you basically make it so those people never move on.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

If they put it in “accepted bugs,” does that mean that they consider it an error on the list to be fixed? Or just that they’re investigating it? (I’ve never submitted a bug report…)

Good thing you mentioned it will affect Tartaru, that probably made someone notice it more!

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It means they are investigating it. Once they investigate, they'll (probably) move it to one of the other forums.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

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Change your computer's time to April 1st and run the benchmark. You'll get to see what one of the old models + some of the old textures look like with the new graphics updates and whatnot. Since my WoL uses many of the same face options, it really stood out to me to show how much the textures have been improved and how faithfully the new models adhere to the old.

So, is it technically possible? It certainly looks like it. Would they consider doing it? Not a chance.

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Originally Posted by Plushy

Is it possible? Yes. Would someone do it? Highly unlikely...mostly because why would you purposely want the ugly textures back in the game.

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Because right now my characters only exist in those "ugly textures", and they're nowhere near ugly enough for me to care. But I do very much care about my characters, who look beautiful right now in ways that the update is turning ugly.

Even if you could only play the parts of the game that exist right now, it would be preferable to losing it forever, and no different to if FFXIV was a series of individually released games.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

And on that note:

I've only realized this now, but it's going to be a lot more difficult to provide accurate feedback and bug reports after the release of 7.0.

For PC players you can still download the 6.0 benchmark (I used Internet Archive to find the link), but for console players there will be no way to make accurate comparisons (unless you recorded cutscenes before maintenance).

So before 7.0 starts, I suggest everyone to take screenshots of your characters in /gpose for future reference.

Here's a small guide that you can use to make comparative screenshots that should be as accurate as possible:

1. Using Duty Explorer, enter the dungeon "The Burn". Teleport to the final room. Do not move!
2. Enter /gpose.
3. In "General Settings" set the Camera Position to 200.
4. In "Character Display Settings" choose "Self only".
5. Turn off "Face Camera".
6. Use the emotes "/attention" and "/straightface" and pause the animation.
7. Zoom on your character and adjust the camera so the face is properly aligned.
8. Turn the camera horizontally to take a screenshot of the front view, side view, and 45 degrees view.

Before taking screenshots, it would be even better if you could temporarily change your hairstyle so it shows the whole face.

Example:

https://i.imgur.com/dFiJkAh.png

Video guide

(The reason I picked The Burn is because it has the most flattering lighting without needing to adjust too many things)

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Thank you so much for this!

I never even thought about using The Burn as a GPose location but it was perfect.

I was able to take lots of screenshots, so at least now I have a good reference library of my chars' old looks, even if the latter never come back in the official game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Because right now my characters only exist in those "ugly textures", and they're nowhere near ugly enough for me to care.

Even if you could only play the parts of the game that exist right now, it would be preferable to losing it forever, and no different to if FFXIV was a series of individually released games.

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Well regardless how you feel. FFXIV is a MMO. It needs newer players to survive and if newer players see this game now. They won't try it because they think it looks outdated/bad graphics. (Heck people already say the game is ugly and grey and washed out looking). Yoshi-p himself said the main reason for graphics update was for younger/new players.

But either way...as I said..it's possible but nobody will do it. More so because SE changed a lot on the back end that I can't explain for obvious reasons but I will say if you ever manage to import the old armour textures, expect to see solid black and green color textures.
SE actually updated the graphics correctly, right down to how textures and color materials are handled and also removed things that old models used.
Basically what I'm saying is...it'll be a lot of work for basically no gain.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

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I want this so badly.
Just give those who prefer the old looks an option to keep the old graphics version.

I'm not bothered at all by crappy textures. My character is a much higher priority to me.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

If they put it in “accepted bugs,” does that mean that they consider it an error on the list to be fixed? Or just that they’re investigating it? (I’ve never submitted a bug report…)

Good thing you mentioned it will affect Tartaru, that probably made someone notice it more!

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It just means that they've accepted the report because it was actually filled out correctly. You can see a lot of bug reports rejected because the person filing it doesn't provide adequate information and doesn't utilize the template provided. Accepted doesn't mean they are acknowledging it as a bug, it's just the stage of reporting and investigation.

From the Bug Report Forum workflow:

"Once reports with sufficient information have been checked, they will be moved to the Accepted Bugs forum.
Bug reports moved to Accepted Bugs will be investigated and confirmed.
Depending on the issue, there may be cases where confirmation may take more time.

As a result of investigating and testing, reports determined to be bugs will be moved to the Confirmed/Planning to Address forum and those determined to be a normal feature of the game will be moved to the Working as Intended forum.

Once reports in the Confirmed/Planning to Address form have been fixed, they will be moved to the Fixed"

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Originally Posted by Astronis

Change your computer's time to April 1st and run the benchmark. You'll get to see what one of the old models + some of the old textures look like with the new graphics updates and whatnot. Since my WoL uses many of the same face options, it really stood out to me to show how much the textures have been improved and how faithfully the new models adhere to the old.

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I don't see how comparing Hildibrand's appearance would be any more enlightening than comparing my own characters by recreating them in the benchmark, as I have been doing in depth throughout this entire business. The textures might look nicer but every single face has been altered in ways that are detrimental to the mood of the character and/or just artistically strange.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't see how comparing Hildibrand's appearance would be any more enlightening than comparing my own characters by recreating them in the benchmark, as I have been doing in depth throughout this entire business. The textures might look nicer but every single face has been altered in ways that are detrimental to the mood of the character and/or just artistically strange.

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So you know the answer to your question, "Is it technically possible?" and get an idea of how that would look. You can look at how the old textures appear in the new benchmark and extrapolate, yes? It's something you literally cannot do with any other model, because that is literally the only model in the entire benchmark that uses Endwalker's face model and Endwalker's face texture. Hildibrand's model and face texture were not updated for the benchmark. He uses the new eye texture because the old one does not exist in the benchmark.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

So you know the answer to your question, "Is it technically possible?" and get an idea of how that would look.

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I have no idea how this is relevant. I asked if it would be possible to keep a separate version of the program that displays the old textures. You point me towards the new program as evidence that the new program is running with new textures.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I have no idea how this is relevant. I asked if it would be possible to keep a separate version of the program that displays the old textures. You point me towards the new program as evidence that the new program is running with new textures.

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*sets face in hands*

I pointed you to the new program running ONE INSTANCE of THE OLD TEXTURE and OLD MODEL so you had inconvertible proof that it was technically possible and ALSO so you could see it for yourself.

Admittedly I missed that you had asked for *an entire separate program* which...no, that's not possible, except in the very narrowest use of "technical". That's never going to happen. Though I understand the Endwalker benchmark can still be obtained somewhere so perhaps that will satisfy you.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I want this so badly.
Just give those who prefer the old looks an option to keep the old graphics version.

I'm not bothered at all by crappy textures. My character is a much higher priority to me.

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I know this is a innocent ask but you don't really understand just what you're asking for.
It's not as simple as flipping a switch and it's back to having your old graphics.
The graphics fundamentally changed at a system level.
SE didn't just update texture, they actually changed how a lot of things are handled and also deleted many things the old graphics used.
This will also triple the game size to hold all the bad textures, they would have to recreate the old lighting source and shadows to replicate the old graphics.
Without doing that you will notice even more pixilation than usual since the old lighting and shadows did a good job in hiding it.
You say you don't care but will once you actually see it yourself.
You can see it in blender If you're so inclined to see it in real time.
When SE updated the graphics they ACTUALLY updated it and not a simple just upscale texture and lighting then called it a day.
Also forgot to point out this will double their work because they would have to add new light sources and old light sources in every new dungeon they make and they would have to add old textures and good textures to every new outfit and raid boss or npc they create... again...doubling their work.

Basically...it's not happening...

You guys just have to accept this is happening.
SE isn't going to waste resources to recreate something like this, sounds harsh but it's true.

That dev time is better spent on making the game actually fun to play and not having another endwalker with nothing to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Would there be any possibility at all of retaining the current graphics in some kind of legacy version of the game program that could be used instead of the updated version? Is it possible at a technical level, and would SE consider implementing it?

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Mods are probably the only recourse, and it does seem likely to me that one (or several lol) will be made, at least to preserve the original models. There are already more faithful upscales for the soon-to-be-outdated textures out there, for everything from characters to gear to environments, so...

Plushy: The game is safe you don't need to defend it anymore, there is no need to prove to everyone else that you are right and that they are wrong. You can leave this thread behind without any worry on your mind.

Iscah: You won't find what you're looking for on the official forums (due to ToS etc), but there's bound to be someone somewhere who's archiving the previous version of the game (I think some people still have data of 1.0 lying around, so I wouldn't be surprised if they archived this too). For example on Twitter I got a post recommended to me of someone who's working on such an archival project as a hobby (although it's not exactly what you're after).

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Originally Posted by Plushy

I know this is a innocent ask but you don't really understand just what you're asking for.
It's not as simple as flipping a switch and it's back to having your old graphics.
The graphics fundamentally changed at a system level.
SE didn't just update texture, they actually changed how a lot of things are handled and also deleted many things the old graphics used.
This will also triple the game size to hold all the bad textures, they would have to recreate the old lighting source and shadows to replicate the old graphics.
Without doing that you will notice even more pixilation than usual since the old lighting and shadows did a good job in hiding it.
You say you don't care but will once you actually see it yourself.
You can see it in blender If you're so inclined to see it in real time.
When SE updated the graphics they ACTUALLY updated it and not a simple just upscale texture and lighting then called it a day.
Also forgot to point out this will double their work because they would have to add new light sources and old light sources in every new dungeon they make and they would have to add old textures and good textures to every new outfit and raid boss or npc they create... again...doubling their work.

Basically...it's not happening...

You guys just have to accept this is happening.
SE isn't going to waste resources to recreate something like this, sounds harsh but it's true.

That dev time is better spent on making the game actually fun to play and not having another endwalker with nothing to do.

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Ok.

Like seriously, your dedication is astounding. You are in no way threatened because as Schwarzwälder Torte said the graphical update will roll out and you'll get the things you'll like.
And good for you! But it would be awesome if you could extend just a little of that mindset to others because we know. We know the changes are going to come. We are - surprise surprise - not stupid. We are however affected because something that has accompanied us for *years*, something we paid lots of money for and that we have grown very attached to is irreversibly going to be patched out of the game.
Like yeah, some people will get sad about this. In the end this is a product and as paying customers we also have an interest to preserve the things we enjoy about it.

Hence we provide feedback.

The dev team then has to value the feedback of different customer groups with different interests and decide what they wanna do. If an optional roll out of the graphical update causes excessive costs for them then the update is safe because we know SE will prioritise what is economically viable.

So, if you think all of our talk is silly then you can just ignore this thread because you'll literally lose nothing.

But you come at this as if the discussion in here really vexes you on a deeply personal level.
I have no problem with you saying you think the update is fine. That is your feedback and you should give it. But you don't need to try to "convert" us at every turn. You won't change our mind (bc we know how much we love our chars), we won't change your mind. This has become clear at this point.
E.g., you say with conviction I *will* care about the textures once they are properly incorporated. I can tell you, I will not. I know myself better than you know me. Personally I do not care about the fidelity of textures the way I care about my character. That is my priority.
Other people's priorities are different and that is their own prerogative.

In the end we'd love to keep our old characters (without it coming at the cost of the new changes others might like) while providing feedback, you'll argue relentlessly that ~it's not possible~ and it'll go round and round and round like that.

But hey, keeps the thread relevant I guess.

Personally I think this benchmark is quite the improvement

Is this something you'd be willing to repost as a bug report, or do you mind if I use some of your assets to create a bug report? I use a very similar face and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong like you did.

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Originally Posted by Irishfae

((Cross posted with the Au Ra thread))

If this was posted already, apologies - I haven't come across it.
So, I'm still trying to make this work (still not happy, but trying) and came across horn 'issues'

1) For face 4, the horns now look even less like they are attached. (EW on left, New Bench on right)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

1a) DT v11 with same angle as the EW one:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

1b: Same angle as 1a, but with light setting two - the shadow is just... looks like her horns are burnt:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

As you can see it was there in EW, but in DT it just looks even less like they are something that grew out of her head.

2) From the side. EW feels more blended and DT feels like it was just stuck on with the color and text vastly mis-matched. (Not saying EW was perfect, just saying it stood out less to me)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

3) Xaela suffers from this as well, though far less obvious and very hard to see form the front side view:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

4) Adding face 3 since their horns also sit on preexisting scales. Though they still look like they were an added afterthought, they don't have a really obvious ridge where they connect to her head.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=0

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Oh wow the floating horns are actually horrible. Hopefully they fix this quick.

Honestly, I think if my issues with the normal maps on my face aren't magically fixed after the maintenance (and I'm not exactly hopeful), I'll be posting a bug report about it.

I feel like a good chunk of the discussion in here boils down to is; is there actually something you think is wrong with the new models/textures, wrong enough to make a properly formulated bug report for? Or is it simply an aesthetic choice you don't really agree with?

While I do really sympathise for people who feel as if the vibe of their face is just 'off', the unfortunate reality is that may well not have been the vibe the artist who sat down to remake the face felt it had - I like to believe the team did what they believed to be preserving the face's features as much as they could, but everyone's interpretation of the features is going to be different. I think I'll be keeping that in mind while I get used to things like tweaked eye and lip shapes.

If you do want to make a bug report, make sure you follow the format, keep it clear and concise and make sure it's actionable feedback. They can't fix it if they don't know what's wrong. :)

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Originally Posted by azaleai

Honestly, I think if my issues with the normal maps on my face aren't magically fixed after the maintenance (and I'm not exactly hopeful), I'll be posting a bug report about it.

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My three reports on JP side (including the normal map issues on face 2 femroe - the nose mark flat diffuse being too light in new engine - the issue with the black pupils on femroe while m!roe face 2 got to keep their coloured ones) all got filed to Not A Bug, despite the normal map issue clearly being... a problem given the baked in flat diffuse for the brow keeps the shadow made for that normal map, and the loss of racial specific traits.

Whether that means they're just now aware of it and might adjust it we don't know, given the Lalafell Dolphin Teeth got filed to Not A Bug as well and it was something they actually fixed, or if they have decided this is where the design is meant to be (given the countdown art of face 2 with black pupils and missing the brow lines despite the vertical brows only on that face type...) I don't know.

I've got my fantasia ready either way and will have to say goodbye to my character of 9+ years if they're not adjusted. I can live OK without the coloured pupils even if I hate them, but the racial traits being toned down or removed outright is inexcusable (to me - I stress it's inexcusable to me/in my eyes; if it's the direction they want to do going forward then that's just what it is, it just means I'll no longer play any of my femroes since they're all hellsguard.)

I've generally tried to stop posting on the ENG side of this topic because I get much more curt and frustrated than on the JP thread.

Still, like in the JP thread, I implore people who are unsatisfied with the changes to continue sharing their concerns and urging the dev team for more transparent communication, even once 7.0 arrives.

The updated Benchmark was a good start, but does nobody else find it actually insane and telling that major lighting changes were done within a month--not just for characters, but for the whole game? The gameplay trailer even uses the old lighting and it shows! It looks bad! This stuff clearly isn't fully baked!

Also, I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but it's so tiring seeing people come into this thread and claim those who want the development team to live up to their promise of "keeping character impressions the same" are taking it too literally and are stating subjective opinions as fact, then in the same breath will decide their own equally subjective opinion is the actual fact.

I suggest anyone trying to share their concerns and desire for SE to live up to their promises to just stop bothering with those guys. Some okay with the benchmark are clearly hypocritically scared about losing something too, but in the end, for them it's just, "well I got mine so screw you," lol.

https://i.imgur.com/cUsWVkr.png
https://i.imgur.com/vHVT8SA.png
https://i.imgur.com/Y9Rr7rk.png
These don't seem very subjective to me. Especially the last line people like to ignore.

It astounds me people would be against adjustments, anyway? If you care so little about the changes in the first place, adjustments likely won't have an effect on you.

Besides, much of the update objectively seems bad. The lighting is better, some normal maps improved significantly, and now I guess when you zoom in you can see the wrinkles on your forehead, because that matters(?)

But at the same time so many color options are broken for skin and hair. Iris sizes have changed significantly at random along with some colors displaying way too brightly (fem Viera, for example). And why are so many noses now bulbous at the bottom when they were smooth slopes before? Why do upturned eyes barely exist as an option now? Several faces have bumpy, uneven geometry now, too. Lip shapes are still less defined and mostly worse across the board.

There's missing clan features for several different races. Au Ra still have scuffed textures. Actually, there's random texture and lighting errors everywhere. Roegadyn women are outright missing normal maps and have an intense darkness added to their eyes, and so do Au Ra men. You can still barely make out male Au Ra iris color if you choose limbal rings. My fem Highlander has gloss thrown in her eyeliner and hair that causes her to look permanently wet, making it feel like they didn't have time to check those features' contrast with the darkest skin tones.

The tips of some tails have been cut off. Lalafell are missing bellybuttons. Holes in hairstyles that weren't present before. The list goes on.

It's honestly incredible how more detailed textures and some more intense lighting can trick the brain into thinking something so obviously unfinished looks better.

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Originally Posted by Cerbolt

Oh wow the floating horns are actually horrible. Hopefully they fix this quick.

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It made it to 'accepted bugs' hopefully it continues on to 'confirmed and planning to address'

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

Whether that means they're just now aware of it and might adjust it we don't know, given the Lalafell Dolphin Teeth got filed to Not A Bug as well and it was something they actually fixed, or if they have decided this is where the design is meant to be (given the countdown art of face 2 with black pupils and missing the brow lines despite the vertical brows only on that face type...) I don't know.

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I wish there was a little more clarity on that… but I guess they can’t really write a detailed explanation on every bug report that gets moved. But glad that even things that got declared “Not A Bug” have been fixed!

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

does nobody else find it actually insane and telling that major lighting changes were done within a month--not just for characters, but for the whole game? The gameplay trailer even uses the old lighting and it shows! It looks bad! This stuff clearly isn't fully baked!

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Didn't realize you played Dawntrail early than everybody else to know that. Also guess you missed the media tour and didn't hear how everybody said its like 2months old and you can clearly see the updated lighting and textures...I suggest giving them a watch unless you don't want spoilers. Then in that case, don't speak on this unless you know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

I've generally tried to stop posting on the ENG side of this topic because I get much more curt and frustrated than on the JP thread.

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Going to be blunt. Its because you want/ like the echo chamber going on there. Unlike americans/EU, the japanese are less likely to speak up and defend what they like when they see the majority being dissatisfied, there were a couple of comments saying they like the changes but they were quickly drowned out by just like NA, the same people posting. There are other factors too but basically just cultural differences in forum etiquette between JP and NA/EU. Over here we're not afraid to call you out more often like I'm doing now.
Overall. You just want a echo chamber its why you get annoyed.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

I suggest anyone trying to share their concerns and desire for SE to live up to their promises to just stop bothering with those guys. Some okay with the benchmark are clearly hypocritically scared about losing something too, but in the end, for them it's just, "well I got mine so screw you," lol.
It astounds me people would be against adjustments, anyway? If you care so little about the changes in the first place, adjustments likely won't have an effect on you.

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Actually It does affect me because a lot of requests are things I like. You sound like a hypocrite with the "well got mine so screw you" because that can go both ways no? Everything else you said is subjective. Male au ra iris were always hard to see even in the 6.58 because their iris are really small. Not sure what you mean by au ra scuffed textures...they scales? Iris sizes changes significantly? hyperbole won't help you btw... lips are way more defined actually rather than looking like plastic gloss like in 6.58.
The rest you pointed out are obvious bugs so not sure why you included it other than to attempt to make the graphics update sound bad and fluff your post.

Overall go post on the JP forums if you don't want to be challenged.(Though other than a couple of posts to spread your feedback. I think its cringe to -keep- posting in a foreign forums and chat when you don't even speak their language and the only way to talk to them is through a translator. Its why when I posted there I didn't try to talk with people.)
Btw....posting in the JP won't make your feedback get heard anymore than posting in your native language. The JP players said multiple times the grass isn't greener on the other side and more than one person said JP players actually think SE listens to us more just like how we think SE listens to JP more.
Basically....Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean SE isn't listening and posting in the JP forums won't increase your chances of getting what you want. If anything I bet your feedback won't even get forwarded to the DEV's since I'm told its very obvious when people use a translator for japanese and it makes it hard to read for native speakers.

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

My three reports on JP side (including the normal map issues on face 2 femroe - the nose mark flat diffuse being too light in new engine - the issue with the black pupils on femroe while m!roe face 2 got to keep their coloured ones) all got filed to Not A Bug, despite the normal map issue clearly being... a problem given the baked in flat diffuse for the brow keeps the shadow made for that normal map, and the loss of racial specific traits.

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That's... insane. I've SEEN the current/new normal maps being passed around discords, there's literally nothing on the brows of the new one except pores while the current is perfectly detailed. "Graphical update" my arse, this is an obvious and definitive downgrade.

Let's hope it's like the lalafell teeth and they've already slated it for fixing... or it's a misfile on the JP side and they'll listen on EN... /copium

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

I've got my fantasia ready either way and will have to say goodbye to my character of 9+ years if they're not adjusted. I can live OK without the coloured pupils even if I hate them, but the racial traits being toned down or removed outright is inexcusable (to me - I stress it's inexcusable to me/in my eyes; if it's the direction they want to do going forward then that's just what it is, it just means I'll no longer play any of my femroes since they're all hellsguard.)

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I don't think I can bring myself to fanta... I love my character as she is too much. I honestly think I'm more likely to quit playing than fanta, this whole thing has soured me too much that I don't think I have the energy to try to get attached to a new race, y'know?

On an unrelated note, anybody here know how people mod the game? asking for a friend, of course (/jk) P: I'm sure if SE won't fix it, someone will... Leaving in stuff like this and marking it "not a bug" sure feels like a great way to push people into modding, though.

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Originally Posted by azaleai

I don't think I can bring myself to fanta... I love my character as she is too much. I honestly think I'm more likely to quit playing than fanta, this whole thing has soured me too much that I don't think I have the energy to try to get attached to a new race, y'know?

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You're not alone. This all made me realize that it's actually my character I'm attached to, not the game itself. I think if I had to start over with a new character there's no way it would be able to hold my interest. I think its the reason why I could never get invested in WoW, I didn't connect with my character and eventually got bored even though I did like the game.

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Originally Posted by Len_

You're not alone. This all made me realize that it's actually my character I'm attached to, not the game itself. I think if I had to start over with a new character there's no way it would be able to hold my interest. I think its the reason why I could never get invested in WoW, I didn't connect with my character and eventually got bored even though I did like the game.

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I had an alt at one point, who was... cute! fun little character design! perfectly interesting ideas for backstory! ...but I couldn't get them through Stormblood. I just had 0 drive or interest to play them (not to mention the fact the camera seemed to move so much faster on a lala than a roe so I got a mild bit of motion sickness from playing them lol). It wasn't until I fantasia'd and name change'd them into a direct clone of my main on another server that I actually wanted to play them and got them caught up.

Full disclosure, I do sorta have commitment issues when it comes to playing new games/movies/books - I would much rather replay/rewatch/reread something I know I like already than try something new that I might not, so I'm already predisposed to disliking this kind of situation. I'm passionate about the things I know I like, so I will absolutely be doing everything in my power to fix or come to terms with the issues I have - I've put waaay too much time into this game already to just throw it away at the drop of a hat.

Aside from actual messed up texture gaps, I am astounded by some of the complaints. The devs were clear the character models were being completely redone and there would be minor variations. As a WHOLE all of the characters look better, more real and less anime cartoony as a whole. But nitpicking the way the corners of a mouth slightly turn up or down or "oooh i found a slightly different zig instead of a zag on one scale" is just massively ridiculous. The characters look great, they still look like themselves with more details and to effectively play the game everyone is zoomed out to the max, so why are we getting this upset? I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

The devs were clear the character models were being completely redone

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This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates. Not like I took those words at face value or believed they wouldn't mess this up somehow but, that is the fact of what they actually said. Unless there was some other LL I missed.

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so why are we getting this upset? I don't understand.

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Who is "we"? Clearly not you. Why do you care?

I definitely think the 2nd benchmark had some great improvements, and I do really appreciate all the work the devs have put in, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the new one as a miqo'te face 4 enjoyer

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4b3a3048e1727&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...62723d882949b&

Its improved in some ways, but is it just me that thinks they've dramatically reduced the differences for the miqo'te faces? she looked shiny and strange in the 1st benchmark but in the 2nd one she looks very similar to face 3? tbh they all seem more identical in shapes now, and her nose and lips are still so flat :( they've definitely reduced the larger flat nose i have here, which is a huge shame, but they did definitely improve the lip shape from the 1st benchmark, i'm just going to miss her open mouth :( im just sad about all the character changes to be honest, i spend a great deal of time looking at her face etc so its gonna be a difficult transition lol.

I know people think its silly to complain but when you have 2000 + hours with a character you love and then your favourite features of theirs are going to be removed or changed completely..it can be hard!

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Originally Posted by Len_

This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates.

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Indeed. They even attributed some of the issues to "it was always there, you just couldn't see it in the lighting", implying that they can't have started from scratch, and yet so many things have been clearly altered if they really did start with the same models.

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Originally Posted by Len_

This is actually the opposite of what was told during live letters. Unless there was some translation error, it was expressed that the changes we were seeing were not based on "totally redone" geometry and that was not what they were planning to do. It was showing the difference with texture and lighting updates. Not like I took those words at face value or believed they wouldn't mess this up somehow but, that is the fact of what they actually said. Unless there was some other LL I missed.

Who is "we"? Clearly not you. Why do you care?

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When the graphics update was first showcased and announced at the fan fest they explained every race had its own unique character model. With the graphics update, ALL character models were replaced with a single model that was "morphed" into each of the races as this reduces the number of assets required in the game, this accounts for the minor variations showcased in the shapes of faces, eyes, lips etc. They literally demonstrated their process at a fan fest when they very first showcased the graphics updated preview character models.

Why do I care, because there are litterally people threatening to quit over minute details. I care because I hopped in a post expecting to see all sorts of nice shots of characters from the updated benchmark and instead greeted with overwhelmingly 65 pages of nitpicking over MINOR MINUTE details that you have to HYPER ZOOM the camera in to even notice.