Dedicated Thread for Patch 2.55 Story Discussion/Spoilers

I just...

Want...

Heavensward already.

Just for the story.

The wait is so monotonous. :eek:

EDIT: I hope one of the Duties in the expansion involve storming Ul'dah.

I assume eventually we will have to liberate Ul'dah from those a-holes who killed Queen Lala :P

Well, the last patch was called "before the fall," so... Ul'Dah hasn't actually fallen yet. I hope we have a hand in wrecking it.

ppl might not remember but in the lvl 30 gladiator class quest aldis gets framed with the very same charges we get framed with

Full Metal Raubahn

LIES AND THIEVES! LIES AND THIEVES!

OK, now that that is out of my system. My dream of feeling like a part of the scions and getting a pair of those goggles looks like it's going to be even more of am impossibility.

>Ishgardian heretic burning intensifies<

That is the cutest thing I have ever seen.

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Originally Posted by ElieDavion

ppl might not remember but in the lvl 30 gladiator class quest aldis gets framed with the very same charges we get framed with

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Heh, I noticed that too - I think Enki has started having very restless nights where she has nightmares of seeing herself in place of Aldis there facing execution at Highbridge accordingly. ;)

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

LIES AND THIEVES! LIES AND THIEVES!

OK, now that that is out of my system. My dream of feeling like a part of the scions and getting a pair of those goggles looks like it's going to be even more of am impossibility.

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You can get those goggles at the Gold Saucer you know. ;)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

You can get those goggles at the Gold Saucer you know. ;)

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Not the ones the Scions wear.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Heh, I noticed that too - I think Enki has started having very restless nights where she has nightmares of seeing herself in place of Aldis there facing execution at Highbridge accordingly. ;)
)

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where is the adventurer that saves us then? Q.Q

Well, I guess the best we could hope for is that Aldis decides to repay the compliment....

Hope that is sadly misplaced as the axe falls...

http://i.imgur.com/0hWr843.png

Haha that is genius! :D

Oh Teledji - if you'd only been able to keep your mouth shut things would have turned out so differently. :p

Teledji Adeledji --

A madman till the end. I knew as soon as his eyes went so wide his lids could no longer contain his irises that he was insane from the start. He could've used lessons from the Joker. Too bad he ded nao

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Teledji Adeledji --

A madman till the end. I knew as soon as his eyes went so wide his lids could no longer contain his irises that he was insane from the start. He could've used lessons from the Joker. Too bad he ded nao

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Is it really too bad? I hated him. He gives Lalas a bad name.

So finally caught up and it's kinda strange to be like the fate of the rest of the Scions, uncovering the assassination plot, rescuing Raubahn, the whereabouts of F'lhaminn, Yugiri's new role, the Ascian threat etc and it's like "now go somewhere else!".

Though I do hope we get a nice change as far as visuals go, we got a little tease of Yda's face so now no mask? new mask? Be interesting anyway.

Well we are going somewhere else to regroup and re establish ourselves. Its difficult to set up shop when your being hunted.

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Originally Posted by TheEnygma

So finally caught up and it's kinda strange to be like the fate of the rest of the Scions, uncovering the assassination plot, rescuing Raubahn, the whereabouts of F'lhaminn, Yugiri's new role, the Ascian threat etc and it's like "now go somewhere else!".

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All I can imagine is that they wanted the Warrior of Light to escape so that hope still remains in Eorzea. I guess as it stands now, you (WoL) are Eorzea's last light, and if you get extinguished, the world may as well end a second time.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

All I can imagine is that they wanted the Warrior of Light to escape so that hope still remains in Eorzea. I guess as it stands now, you (WoL) are Eorzea's last light, and if you get extinguished, the world may as well end a second time.

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This is pretty much screamed during 2.55 and is

the reason why Minfilia and the Archons all sacrifice themselves to slow down the pursuring Brass Blades and Crystal Braves, so that the Warrior of Light has the best chance of survival to 'restore the light', as they're the only hope for Eorzea's future (Y'shtola and Minfilia even directly tell you this as they farewell you). Even though our powers are a little dimmed due to Midgardsormr's meddling with stripping the Blessing of Light from us, we are still Hydaelyn's chosen, and if nothing else holds Eorzea's hope for the future (after all, the profile title granted for completing the storyline is literally 'Bearer of the Torch').

Without us, the Warrior of Light, there is no hope. Eorzea would be pretty much doomed to the Ascians' endgame and total Garlean annexation.

Ok serious question incoming: Is there an official ''BRING BACK NANAMOOOOOOOO!!!!1!!!!11'' thread or do I have to start one?

Maybe I'm in denial,

but I think the lady who poured Nanamo's wine conspired with Nanamo, and that Nanamo isn't really dead. She's got that tricky air about her, that one.

Right?

...Right? :(

I had that as a theory for a while, that Nanamo's

death was actually faked, FFXII style, and that later in the game she will show up leading the 'Ul'dahn Royalist Resistance' or something causing Ul'dah to break out into fullscale civil war.

After all, there is already a drug being sold illicitly in Ul'dah which causes a death-like state if overdosed (Somnus), and given the Brass Blades corrupt dealings in it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is actually what has happened.... but the more I think of it, the more I'm just in denial and have just accepted the awful truth. Nanamo is dead, and we're framed for it.:(

But yeah, Nanamo's handmaiden is clearly the one directly responsible (despite Ilberd's confession to Raubahn that he was the one actually responsible for Nanamo's death), when Teldji arrests the player, the player's character glares at the Handmaiden who can't even look the player's character in the eye due to her guilt).

Somnus is not an ingested drug. You smoke it, like tobacco or marijuana. Anyone using it as the foundation for their reasoning need only look at either the Pugilist or Postmoogle questlines for the specifics on how it works.

Which is not to say that there aren't ways she can come back, just that Somnus is most likely not it.

Oh, that's right. I just assumed there was a form of it you could prepare as a liquid form (like laudanum or morphine).

And now that you mention it, my earlier comment about the whole situation being a repeat of what happened to Aldis during the level 50 GLA quest made me realize - in that quest, the poison Aldis was framed with was a highly potent Ala Mhigan poison called 'Rhalgr's Bile' which apparently had been used in the past to assassinate an Ala Mhigan king, so that's a good choice as any for the substance used to frame the player this time around. In which case, it would make the possibility of her return... all the less likely then sadly. :(

And speaking of Aldis, it should be noted he was never officially cleared of the attempted assassination charges against him, which are technically still current (even though during the level 50 GLA quest the player uncovers evidence of his innocence, the Sacrarium ignored it as Leavold and the Alacran had bribed them an enormous amount of money to secure his conviction and execution), which doesn't bode well for us on the run facing a similar fate. :(

Given the Ul'dahan nobility's predilections for necromancy, there are a few ways I can think for her to come back, and there may still even be a way to save her without compromising the impact of her death. I have my own stubborn hopes (G'raha come back), so I can't exactly fault others for theirs.

I think the Sultana may be alive. There are a few NPCs who seem to be under the impression that she's just very ill (but living), including the Captain of the Sultansworn (although he admits he hasn't been permitted to see her). It is possible he's being fed bad intel to keep the Sultansworn in check. And we know the Immortal Flames are trying to keep a lid on things to prevent everything from slipping into chaos.. but there are just too many people who have heard the rumors surrounding the Warrior of Light and the events of that party. Heck, there were plenty of witnesses who were there (and who left and survived) after everything hit the fan. So, at this point this is the worst kept secret in Eorzea, and it would be silly for the Captain of the Sultansworn (of all people) to be one of the few people still in the dark.

More importantly, I think (or perhaps I'm giving SE too much credit), is that Nanamo is still alive in at least a couple quests that can be completed post-events of the main storyline finale. I am just reluctant to believe that Square wouldn't have cleaned that up. I'm doubting they would kill a character that they're still using elsewhere in the game. It would be completely immersion breaking to finish the main storyline and then (even months or more later) participate in a side quest that has Nanamo being very much alive. It just doesn't seem like them to trust that players will understand or accept the continuity problems there.

However, if Nanamo is still alive then the continuity problem doesn't exist.

Who knows. Perhaps I'm giving the developers too much credit when it comes to the level of sloppy oddness they're willing to allow. Or perhaps 3.0 will introduce changes to these side stories which feature Nanamo as still living. All I do know is that something has to give in order for all the stories to make sense when woven together.

If she is still alive, it makes sense for the villains to lie to Raubahn. Having him lose it and commit a crime himself (so they would be justified in either killing him or imprisoning him, thus getting him out of their way) seemed to be one of their goals.

I just don't want Nanamo to be dead. I'm hoping we get to go in and do something to destroy/cripple the Monatarists. Maybe then we'll get a "Save the Queen" weapon as a reward.

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Originally Posted by Matrinka

I just don't want Nanamo to be dead. I'm hoping we get to go in and do something to destroy/cripple the Monatarists. Maybe then we'll get a "Save the Queen" weapon as a reward.

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Kingdom Hearts reference?

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Originally Posted by Gyson

However, if Nanamo is still alive then the continuity problem doesn't exist.

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Nope. There's a bigger continuity "error" than even Nanamo's undeath: what caused Nidhogg to awaken, and how did Estinien acquire his blood? These are both events that happen during the Dragoon Job quests as a direct result of your involvement with Estinien, and yet he references them even if you haven't leveled DRG, and, more importantly, they still occur during the DRG quests even if you do them after 2.55, as if Ishgard still hasn't been attacked.

There are little errors all over the place in addition to the bigger ones, but after a point the devs have to accept that some people will end up dealing with quests out of order.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Nope. There's a bigger continuity "error" than even Nanamo's undeath: what caused Nidhogg to awaken, and how did Estinien acquire his blood? These are both events that happen during the Dragoon Job quests as a direct result of your involvement with Estinien, and yet he references them even if you haven't leveled DRG, and, more importantly, they still occur during the DRG quests even if you do them after 2.55, as if Ishgard still hasn't been attacked.

There are little errors all over the place in addition to the bigger ones, but after a point the devs have to accept that some people will end up dealing with quests out of order.

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All class, job, gathering, and crafting class quests happen in the 2.0 cycle. Nanamo's death is the 2.55 cycle. They set it up so all those happen BEFORE everything from 2.1 on. Meaning it's not a continuity error, it's that the story assumes that the players were done with all that long ago.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

All class, job, gathering, and crafting class quests happen in the 2.0 cycle. Nanamo's death is the 2.55 cycle. They set it up so all those happen BEFORE everything from 2.1 on. Meaning it's not a continuity error, it's that the story assumes that the players were done with all that long ago.

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You really don't have to tell me that. Tell that to the guy I was quoting.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Nope. There's a bigger continuity "error" than even Nanamo's undeath: what caused Nidhogg to awaken, and how did Estinien acquire his blood? These are both events that happen during the Dragoon Job quests as a direct result of your involvement with Estinien, and yet he references them even if you haven't leveled DRG, and, more importantly, they still occur during the DRG quests even if you do them after 2.55, as if Ishgard still hasn't been attacked.

There are little errors all over the place in addition to the bigger ones, but after a point the devs have to accept that some people will end up dealing with quests out of order.

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I don't feel that's of the same magnitude as the leader of Ul'dah jumping from alive to dead to alive depending on the order in which you do the quests.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

All class, job, gathering, and crafting class quests happen in the 2.0 cycle. Nanamo's death is the 2.55 cycle. They set it up so all those happen BEFORE everything from 2.1 on. Meaning it's not a continuity error, it's that the story assumes that the players were done with all that long ago.

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This is giving the player too much credit, and not something SE seems to typically do. Your typical player joining the game today and playing through the various storylines doesn't see patch 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, etc. They aren't coming to the forums or checking out the chronological order content was released in. To them this is just one big game with a big story, and seemingly some major continuity errors depending on the order they consume the content in.

There are plenty of ways to fix this, and the developers seem like the type not to sweep this sort of thing under the rug. That they haven't bothered to fix it can mean several things, (one of those being that Nanamo isn't really dead). Combined with some of the statements given by a few of the NPCs in the game, I tend to believe that's a strong possibility. Just an opinion, though!

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Originally Posted by Gyson

There are plenty of ways to fix this, and the developers seem like the type not to sweep this sort of thing under the rug. That they haven't bothered to fix it can mean several things, (one of those being that Nanamo isn't really dead).

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The other being that it would, as Fernehalwes (head of Lore and Localization) has said before, simply consume too many resources to be a worthwhile investment. You underestimate exactly how much besides one CUL quest needs to be altered after 2.55, and simply changing the biggest "error" would only make the smaller "errors" more obvious.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

The other being that it would, as Fernehalwes (head of Lore and Localization) has said before, simply consume too many resources to be a worthwhile investment. You underestimate exactly how much besides one CUL quest needs to be altered after 2.55, and simply changing the biggest "error" would only make the smaller "errors" more obvious.

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Yes, that is completely possible and falls into the category of "can mean several things". Just to be clear, I never implied it wasn't a possibility, I merely suggested there are several possibilities and admitted from the start that I may be giving the developers too much credit. When writers make a decision to kill off a character, I like to believe that they review all the cases where said NPC makes an appearance in other storylines, debate how best to deal with that, and then act on that decision. In Nanamo's case she pops up in a few stories (not just one CUL quest), and yet it's quite possible the reaction of the writers was akin to "oh well, doesn't matter/don't care". If that is the case then I feel that's disappointing and sloppy writing, and the team can take that as feedback. Or, it could be that Nanamo is really still alive (a few of the NPCs closest to her seem to believe so), rendering this observation/complaint as moot.

Again, those are all just my opinions. After all, this is the story discussion thread, not the "agree Nanamo is dead or GTFO" thread. :p

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Originally Posted by Gyson

If that is the case then I feel that's disappointing and sloppy writing, and the team can take that as feedback.

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I hope they are listening. I really do. Don't mistake my cynical pragmatism to mean I don't want to believe otherwise.

Anyway, glad to see more people are choosing to live in denial/making theories about the possibility of Nanamo being alive.
She was the only person in the realm who looked so much like an adorable mix between chibi queen & cupcake, so Her loss will make Eorzea a far gloomier place...
I'm hoping maybe if her death greatly displeases a large enough part of the community, the devs miiiiiiiiiight take it into account.


http://i.imgur.com/YSckyyJ.gif

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Kingdom Hearts reference?

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Sort of... Save the Queen is an iconic Final Fantasy weapon. Because of that, it was included in Kingdom Hearts. I'm now awaiting seeing it in FFXIV, hopefully, related to Nanamo, despite her being a sultana rather than a queen.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Save_the_Queen

Since she's the current subject of discussion, I'd like to point out that there's one disturbing aspect of Nanamo's death that seems to have gone pretty much unnoticed (please correct me if that's untrue).
This is a game rated 16+. Even in games with more ''mature content'' that FFXIV, there is still one taboo in the entire videogame industry: directly showing the death of children, or sometimes even creatures resembling children.
So, yes, I know Lallafels are not necessarily infants, I play one myself, and I've had to kill quite a few Garlean/Pirate/etc ones throughout the story, but those were kill or be killed situations, not to mention most of these Lallafel models had a moustache or other things indicating older age.
Nanamo's actual age on the other hand is unknown, especially since she has to act mature because of her role, but a. she looks like a child ( she even has pigtails) b. she sometimes displays the emotions of one (bursting out in tears, running into Raubahns arms) c. she still sleeps with her plush toys for gods' sake!
Contrary to what most people assume about the female gender, I'm not ridiculously sensitive or even fond of children, but Nanamo's death scene is as disturbing as the image of a little girl choking to death actually is. To make matters worse, it was a largely unnecessary act of violence, as she was about to resign from her position anyway.
I would very much like to have an official response to this.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

Yes, that is completely possible and falls into the category of "can mean several things". Just to be clear, I never implied it wasn't a possibility, I merely suggested there are several possibilities and admitted from the start that I may be giving the developers too much credit. When writers make a decision to kill off a character, I like to believe that they review all the cases where said NPC makes an appearance in other storylines, debate how best to deal with that, and then act on that decision. In Nanamo's case she pops up in a few stories (not just one CUL quest), and yet it's quite possible the reaction of the writers was akin to "oh well, doesn't matter/don't care". If that is the case then I feel that's disappointing and sloppy writing, and the team can take that as feedback. Or, it could be that Nanamo is really still alive (a few of the NPCs closest to her seem to believe so), rendering this observation/complaint as moot.

Again, those are all just my opinions. After all, this is the story discussion thread, not the "agree Nanamo is dead or GTFO" thread. :p

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Have a situation where you must adapt any content characters appear in when their are major alterations to that character creates a situation where storytelling becomes extremely restrictive and the problem compounds as the game gets longer. Let use Estinien as an example. Lets say something happens to him that changes him or kills him in say 3.2. That would create a situation where the developers would have to go back and change pretty much the entire DRG Job storyline from scratch. That's a huge amount of work. Its not feasible without a serious impact on new content. For example for such a thing would you be happy to give up say the entire Dark Knight storyline? Imagine if it happened in 4.0 or 5.0. They would have 2 to 3 expansions worth of storyline that they would have to rewrite.

Such a thing like this requires either Main Scenario and Non main Scenario NPCs never interact in any way and there is no crossover between the two or any crossover that does happen effectively makes such NPCs immune to major changes happening to them. The first situation leads to a sense of disconnect in the world as the Main Scenario doesn't feel relevant to events in the side stories and vice versa. The second leads to an undermining of any tension in the story because players would now that certain characters have plot armor.

This isn't about the writers not caring about story. In fact the opposite is true. They aren't willing to let a problem keep them from creating tension in a story and making that story connected and engaging.

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Originally Posted by Naamah

Since she's the current subject of discussion, I'd like to point out that there's one disturbing aspect of Nanamo's death that seems to have gone pretty much unnoticed (please correct me if that's untrue).
This is a game rated 16+. Even in games with more ''mature content'' that FFXIV, there is still one taboo in the entire videogame industry: directly showing the death of children, or sometimes even creatures resembling children.
So, yes, I know Lallafels are not necessarily infants, I play one myself, and I've had to kill quite a few Garlean/Pirate/etc ones throughout the story, but those were kill or be killed situations, not to mention most of these Lallafel models had a moustache or other things indicating older age.
Nanamo's actual age on the other hand is unknown, especially since she has to act mature because of her role, but a. she looks like a child ( she even has pigtails) b. she sometimes displays the emotions of one (bursting out in tears, running into Raubahns arms) c. she still sleeps with her plush toys for gods' sake!
Contrary to what most people assume about the female gender, I'm not ridiculously sensitive or even fond of children, but Nanamo's death scene is as disturbing as the image of a little girl choking to death actually is. To make matters worse, it was a largely unnecessary act of violence, as she was about to resign from her position anyway.
I would very much like to have an official response to this.

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Nanamo is in her 20s. Many Lalafell act in a childlike manner.

However from a story position Nanamo's assassination was necessary. Firstly she wasn't just resigning. Her action would have seriously undermined the power of the Monetarists. Secondly, this whole thing was a power play not just to remove her but to remove the Warrior of Light as well.

Its supposed to be shocking and horrifying because its an evil act and honestly an actuate depiction of anyone dying from choking to death on poison would be disturbing.