Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzu-bq
I would say the opposite while there might be more on this thread look at the "show your Au'ra" thread in General Raen and caucasianish skin seem to be most common.
Au Ra physiology and other lore.
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05-30-2015, 03:25 AMjomoru
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05-30-2015, 03:37 AMCiliaHere's the thing though: we literally have no idea how either Auri clan's society works. We know the Raen are settled, reclusive, live among the Domans, and consider themselves more closely related to the Dawn Father. The Xaela are nomads, engage in tribal warfare, and consider themselves more closely related to the Dusk Mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
... and that's it. We know literally nothing else about Auri societies. For all we know the women are neither cavalry nor infantry, and support purely with spells (don't forget the existence of magic). Maybe they rely purely on their lithe physique for dodging and take up battle roles reliant on finesse over power. Maybe they don't even fight at all and are a rarity (like Miqo'te males, canonically). Or maybe it's the other way around.
We just don't know yet, and we won't until they get around to putting up the naming conventions and the lore behind them. Until then, I don't think it's really fair to say they should be more robust (though I agree on that point) since we don't even know how Auri societies function proper.
Personally, I prefer the black scales and horns over the white. Makes me feel more like I'm playing a fantasy race, while the white horns/scales makes them look like Midlanders with a skin condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzu-bq
But that's just my opinion. :rolleyes: -
05-30-2015, 04:12 AMSamcaesarWe don't know much, however this thread is largely speculation anyways, it's why it's so fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
It still doesn't make much sense for their mages to not also train in physical activities and strive to also be as threatening as possible, after all what's more effective something that can just blast you with magic or something that can blast you with magic then cleave you in half if they miss :P It'd be interesting I suppose if they don't have a close to 1:1 ratio like the Miqo'te, but in the same breath, I'd hope they'd either stick to something more traditional (~1:~1) or something different, not that I could think of an alternative at the moment.
That said, magic in FFXIV is a weird thing.. The Garleans are such a supposed threatening force, yet in the opening cutscene you see a mage decimate one of their Magitek Walkers with what looks like relative ease. It doesn't really seem to have any major disadvantages with the exception of people being wary of them due to the whole War of the Magi thing.
Honestly I just think the huge differences between the boy and girl Au Ra are just bunk and dumb >.> I'm very big on Author's intent and whenever I hear the author's purpose for a girl's character design is "moe" I can't help but get a bit upset.
Still sooo excited for any bit of Au Ra lore though. -
05-30-2015, 04:15 AMRaminaxI'm thinking you've misinterpreted me. My original intent was simply to find possible reasons that Raen and Xaela could have similar builds, despite the obvious difference in culture. I wasn't endorsing the current Au'ra female. If I had to choose, female Au'ra wouldn't look like they belonged to an entirely different species. We've already got lots of cute females everywhere, I feel we didn't really need more. So at least with current Auri females, I agree with you. I've never been a fan of excessive dimorphism, especially when fantastic females tend to just look like really beautiful humans for the sake of pandering. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
W-Well... Xaela look like Hyur that have necrosis then! D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
#StrongIndependentRaenWhoNeedsNoWoman
(Incidentally, don't google necrosis if you're squeamish. Fair warning.) -
05-30-2015, 05:06 AMMahriTrachtoum vs. Pipin Tarupin. Go!Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
(You are thinking too hard about this. Maybe this is what this thread is for, but still!) -
05-30-2015, 05:27 AMCiliaWell, maybe. But by that same logic everyone in every army should be trained in every discipline, which just isn't realistic. On an individual level it's easy for us to do so, but soldiers are... y'know... soldiers, and they don't have the time to train in multiple disciplines. When you're part of an army (military or otherwise), it's best to specialize in one role instead of trying to take on multiple tasks. Nothing says they can't, but that's how armies usually work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
So... still no way to know how Xaela hunting / war parties are organized, so no point in fussing over it.
I don't agree with the intentionally moé design either (that's what we have Lalafell for, dammit!), but instead of being upset I took it as a challenge to make an attractive but still tough-ish woman (without knee-jerking to the "meanfase"), just like I took the Highlander female as a challenge to make a tough but still attractive woman. In spite of the inherently cute body language...Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
... I think I succeeded.
I think. We'll have to see how many people hit on me in-game (in spite of the fact I'm a G.I.R.L.). -
05-30-2015, 07:17 AMViridianaOnly so many hours in a day. And an archer who can thread an eye slit at a hundred paces is more terrifying to me than one who can hit the chest at fifty paces and open my belly with a sword at three paces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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05-30-2015, 07:41 AMWyrahFhurrstI'm sorry, are you saying that a magical ability from a people who have access to magic "doesn't count"? The stealth mechanics count just as much as any other because they work in the context of the setting we have. That means that the female Au Ra can do it just fine, being small and lithe and capable of hiding using their magical stealth abilities. The reason I say Male Roegadyn and Male Au Ra would have a hard time is that they're so bulky that it'd be hard to accept them pulling off the animations that a ninja performs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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05-30-2015, 08:21 AMlilirulu
I had a theory why the males are so much larger then the females. It may be because, like deer, the men compete with each other for the attention of the females so they are physically larger to show they are the better mate. It'd, also, go to explain why males horns are larger and more "pointy" then the females.
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05-30-2015, 09:07 AMHivernica
Here is mine. Didn't want her to be too cute, but it's kinda hard :/
http://i.imgur.com/IXWkCIx.png
http://i.imgur.com/kbDNiaQ.png -
05-30-2015, 11:41 AMMahri
Different personalities from the last few pages (as I interpret them at a glance)
Eccentric who's probably some sort of wizard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Deadly competent pike brigade captain.Quote:
Originally Posted by RomildaRayne
Ultra hip DJ chick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Princess but wears wolf pelts instead of ermine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivernica
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05-30-2015, 12:00 PMRomildaRayne
Heh. Thanks for giving me the cool description. Here's the same Au Ra with shorter hair.
http://i.imgur.com/yRglUuh.png -
05-30-2015, 12:37 PMSamcaesarSorry! :P I mean, the best explanation for that was the one Cilia I think suggested and just lack of genetic drift due to recent separation of the two clans (Like 100 years or so). Now if we find out the Xaela and Raen have been seperate for centuries.. Well that's just silly in that they don't look very different at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raminax
Good point! Maybe Pipin vs Merlwyb is more fair? Either way, the point is a Roegadyn's body would fair so much better in battle than a Lalafell's :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
Maybe! But discussion and debating silly things like game lore is a hobby that I enjoy!
Ah, but the military makes sure no matter what branch boot camp still trains the body and introduces one to a lot of basic training, no way they'd ever focus just on one field from the get go, that breeds holes that are easy to exploit in the military. Specific branches further that specialization, but I'd be sure in saying no matter what branch you still know gun maintenance and usage. I would say likewise would go for Xaela war parties, everyone there receives training in handling swords, archery, et cetera. While the girls may excel in magic or archery, that's still no excuse for the horrid lack of physical strength that's they've got. Seriously, it looks like they could hardly hold up a shield, much less take an attack while defending themselves up close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
On the contrary! Speculation and discussion is the life blood of things like lore forums! After all, if we just accepted that we don't know squat then this thread would be dead til new bouts of information, receive a few posts, then nothing til the next bout of lore.
See, I don't think a game ought to make it a "challenge" to make a certain sort of look with a race, it's silly and limiting. Not a bad job, though I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Same thing could be said about so many hours in the day, though, one only has so long to become an expert archer. An archer who can kill at a hundred paces would be decimated up close, which all that would take is a big enough shield. Strict specializations are nice, however it's much better to have rounded training. A jack of all trades master of none will fair much much better in a battlefield than a one who has strict specialization. After all, what will the archer do once you're three paces away, as you can only retreat so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
I suppose it's an issue of "Practicing one kick 1000 times vs 1000 kicks one time", which normally one favors the former in the idiom, but if one finds a way to not have to worry about the one kick practiced 1000 times, then the person's skill is useless. Aristotle's advocacy of well-roundedness in life really rings a bell in this situation.
Could be, but theoretically those sorts of distinction fade away as one develops into a more humanoid appearance and societal structure (Ie tribal groups). There's a reason why humans tend to stray from direct bouts of strength with each other, it's just not too productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilirulu
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05-30-2015, 12:39 PMPArcherWell, the Garleans haven't had a lot of experience fighting magic before they invaded Eorzea, so a magic weakness isn't surprising. Read the description of the Gilded Magitek Mount for a bit moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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05-30-2015, 12:41 PMFrederick22
So many beautifull creatures, oh lala *-*
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05-30-2015, 12:42 PMSamcaesar
Oh and because others seem to be doing it.. My Au Ra, except like imagine her a good foot taller instead of the poor 5'2 that she is ; ;
http://i.imgur.com/UovREap.png
http://i.imgur.com/dG7AaWc.png
Really neat designs though! I dig all the variety to everyones' Au Ra despite my complaints on the basis of them. -
05-30-2015, 01:13 PMViridianaEh, if we're discussing modern armies, there's going to be an extreme marksmanship difference between an infantryman and a cook. (As a whole. Of course it varies by individual.) Not intending to compare the female Au Ra to cooks, only to use that as an example. And figure that this is true in modern armies with rifles where physical strength is less central to marksmanship than skill and focus is. So, yeah, the guys who sit at a desk all day in the personnel section will be reasonably capable at basic battle tasks, but no commander is going to put them near the front lines if he has any better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
I will concede that something like a muscle slider should be a thing for pretty much all the races and genders, though. Simply because even in the most warmongering tribes, I assume there will still be people back in the rear not participating in all-out combat, and having the option to reflect either scenario in the same race/gender would be nice.
In a one-on-one scenario, I agree. Someone with the focus and speed to snatch an arrow out of the air, for example, wouldn't worry much about a single archer. But, then, we're discussing armies and war, right? Yeah, your forces can hunker down behind shields when a volley of arrows is incoming, but the tighter your shield wall the closer you're huddled for the mages observing from the next hill over. And of course, the mages will need some sort of defence against a cavalry charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Basically, if we're talking militaries, it takes all kinds of fighters, so it makes sense to me that there would be some more lithe members among even the warring nomad types. Granted, there should be both lithe and bulky, but SE doesn't seem to want to give a fuller suite of options, sadly. -
05-30-2015, 01:33 PMMahriDuly noted, and all is quite fair of course! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Now, Pipin vs. Merlwyb...is I fight that would be awesome to see yet I never want to, because we've had too many good folks turn bad and it would make me cry like a baby.
Interpretation on this one, factoring in the height...suffers-no-fools aristocratic type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
And I feel ya on the height....the RPG character mine's an incarnation of was originally like 5'10". -
05-30-2015, 02:20 PMSamcaesarThere will be a difference between a cook and an infantryman, however we're not discussing those, we're discussing tribal groups with war. Focusing on their war parties specifically, training tends to be far more uniform and the need for troops to be prepared for all situations is much higher. If the Xaela presented themselves as a modern military force, then your claims would hold a good bit of ground! However, this isn't the case due to the whole nomadic tribe description, anyone who will be in their combat troops will need to be as well trained as their peers, least a whole weakest link in the chain scenario occur. Outside of completely barring girl Xaela from their war parties, I'm not sure how they function so well. If that is the case though, I can't help but feel disappointed in SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
While a muscle slider would be nice, the addition of a greater height range of at least a foot+, as opposed to the current 4 inches with the girl Au Ra, would seem to be best. The wild sexual dimorphic that occurs with the Xaela in particular makes incredibly little sense.
As someone brought up, there are ways to dampen Aether in the world. Perhaps a Phalanx of sorts with gilded shields would prove to be the answer to both archers and mages? War is all about strategy, and strategy wise having those with that sorts of specific specialization with little in the way of a back up is basically suicide, especially in the case of tribal conflict. Honestly, my biggest issue is the lack of actual customization with the Au Ra, specifically with their girls. Their body shapes hardly suit the warring nomads, unless every Xaela girl is either noncombat or fights with quicker techniques/magic, but kinda bunk if every Xaela girl works like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
Merlwyb's gonna be next in the Eorzean drama, I tell ya! She's gonna have enough of the Scions and challenge us to combat I bet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
Not a bad draw, though not what I was aiming for. -
05-30-2015, 02:20 PMWyrahFhurrstBut what if they get into some heated discussion and enter into a physical disagreement? No one turns evil, but we still get to see them fight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
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05-30-2015, 02:47 PMSuzakuCMX
http://i.imgur.com/LPlpo2t.png
Here's mine! Plan on switching from Fem Highlander to Au'ra. -
05-30-2015, 03:12 PMViridianaI mean, it really depends what their role is. I don't really see nomads doing the old-style line-against-line war like you see in the Answers video. Archery and magic are one option, but so is light cavalry. Heck, maybe they have access to guns that make physical strength secondary. There are a number of options for war that don't involve a straight contest of muscular strength. They'd all be helped by strength, sure, but in a number of them it becomes secondary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
I do agree though, that I'm not thrilled with how short the females are, or that there's no muscle slider. I already feel like midlander females are a smidge short. -
05-30-2015, 04:12 PMBelhi
Being big doesn't necessarily make you better in battle, particularly when you take into consideration terrain. It provides brute strength yes and the ability to carry heavier weapons and armour but it comes at the cost of endurance and stability.
Further a large fighter often has greater issues with unstable or uneven ground. In highly muddy or unstable ground a heaver fighter will seriously struggle in keeping their feet making manoeuvring even harder. Further, enclosed spaces often cancel out a lot of the advantages size can give particularly if the larger fighter cant stand up straight. In narrow low ceiling tunnels a Roe would really struggle to fight effectively against a armed Lalafell.
However in truth the differences in gender would be genetic probably. No amount of training will change that. Unless the Au Ra specifically engaged in a breeding program to make bigger females you wouldn't see much difference in size regardless of condition. More likely Xaela culture would have adjusted roles in combat and such to match each genders size and strength. As I pointed out above, there are plenty of roles which smaller females would probably manage better than the males. -
05-30-2015, 05:00 PMWyrahFhurrstAs a factor that affects genetics, food allocation would also play a role in growth of the two genders. If, perhaps, the males received more food than the females (perhaps because they're the warriors of the tribe or some other reason), then the males would be significantly larger than females.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Secondly, height could be a gender-related gene for the Au Ra. This would mean that the women would be highly genetically predisposed to shortness while the males, having the male y-gene and its associated height-gene, would be significantly taller.
Just a couple of possibilities. We can bemoan the height difference all we want, but it's unlikely that it'll change. I for one like the sexual dimorphism. The Au Ra have some of the most pronounced gender differences of any race so far, and I think that's neat. -
05-30-2015, 05:30 PMSamcaesarOh yeah, I doubt nomads do the line-against-line esque thing. Guerrilla, war parties, and hit and run tactics are probably more more in line with that sort of combat, but none of those count out the important of muscular strength. I doubt that strength ever becomes really secondary, after all, I'm sure those designated tank commanders or snipers in modern militaries also need to worry about maintaining top physical strength. The same applies to war parties, strength will always be important in battle, even if not the first it's likely the second, especially in situations where melee combat will be involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
Repeated muscular training leads to stronger muscles, which means endurance becomes much less of an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Well, seeing as how the Xaela come from steppes, unever or unstable ground is much less of an issue, unless if they all live smack dab in the middle of a marsh. Mud and unstable ground going to cause issues, large fighter or smaller one. The thing is I highly doubt the Xaela would be fighting in enclosed spaces, they come from steppes, which are wide, flat, and open. In a open area, those worries about cramp environments aren't an issue. Strength comes back to play, especially in one on one conflicts.
That's the thing, the way evolution works the Xaela girls would never be that small or "moe" in the first place. The most adaptable type of Au Ra would be able to survive the best, and the most ideal Au Ra in a situation where they are warring, hunting, and living like nomads is one that would be perceptive and at peak physical prowess, the latter requiring a body that isn't the one girl Xaela have. Even if Xaela society dictates "Women will be rogues/mages. Men will be warriors." that sort of thing would never last long, it segregates fighting forces and leaves massive gapes to the point where fights become rock/paper/scissors.
Groups don't last long with flaws that massive and exploitable, especially not ones constantly engaged in war. -
05-30-2015, 06:21 PMBelhi
A small person with the same amount of training will have on average higher stamina than a large person. That's simply because as you get larger you lose efficiency in the use of energy. This is a pretty common truth in Martial Arts and in sports. Stronger muscles also doesn't neccesarily mean bulk. It depends if your muscle strength is based around burst strength or endurance strength.
There would be plenty of uneven and unstable ground on the steppes though maybe not swamp like. Even loose soil on a slope is more difficult for larger people. Mud would also cause a greater issue. The reason is weight vs surface area of your footing. The pressure a larger persons feet is greater thus the ground is more likely to give way under their footing. It is true though that there wouldn't be many cramped places but that was just a general point.
As for evolution, your missing the fact that combat isn't the only survival issue the Xaela would be evolved for, even assuming things like cultural tendencies had been established long enough to create profound shifts in the physical builds of the Xaela. Just as important for survival and even more important for size would be the availability of food. Steppes are generally relatively infertile and food poor land. Again there is a reason most human races that originate from that type of landscape are generally small. To grow large and to maintain that size requires greater quantities of food. The Xaela are nomadic meaning they would lack the agricultural methods of mass producing food and short of them eating grass there is a limit to the access of food stuffs. Realistically speaking the other Au Ra clan should be the larger one due to a higher access to protein. Size would effectively be a survival flaw. Evolution would be making the Au Ra males smaller, not the other way round. Being a powerful warrior doesn't help if you starve to death between battles or are weakened due to hunger. -
05-30-2015, 06:26 PMGrayve
Wow, this thread got all real... Uh... I just want them to be taller/more like the males, cause that's what I like to play. Its a game where lala's can fight Roe's and not be stepped on, so I don't think to hard about it.
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05-30-2015, 06:34 PMBelhiSorry. Its too late. Having considered the realism of it I'm afraid its clear we now need to make the Xeala males short to match the females instead. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Grayve
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05-30-2015, 07:35 PMSamcaesarEven in the case of endurance sports such as biking, do you see people with hardly any muscles though? Muscles compound with continual growth, it's why those who take anabolic steroids, which just expedites natural muscle growth, bulk up massively. It's no wonder why something like steroids are such a problem in sports, including endurance sports such a biking. Plus endurance training still bulks a person up, not as massively as someone who focuses on strength training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Ah, that's the thing though, steppes are notably flat, inclines and declines wouldn't be a problem. And the pressure from a larger person's foot compared to a smaller persons is hardly an issue. In fact I'd say the opposite is more of a problem, there's that saying about a woman in high heels will do more damage to a tile floor than an elephant would which has some relevancy here. Plus, even if that would be the case, what do they do on rainy days then? "Sorry guys, looks like only the girls will be fighting today, don't want you guys sinking into the mud!" is kind of a hilarious thought though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Well, nomadic groups do follow food sources, and they generally don't waste any possible food. Doing a little bit of research also seems to tell me that groups such as the various tribes of plains Native American, nomadic as well, were still the same height as Europeans and Australian people on average, an inch or so shorter in some cases. I'd actually say the opposite is the case most groups tend to fight for resources. The larger and more physically powerful groups of Xaela would dominate the smaller and weaker ones, dominating those groups means they have more food to eat for themselves. The second one group of Xaela begins to gain more power, which I'm sure would occur, their resources increase. Though I suppose you could be right if scarcity were an issue!Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Hah, well like I said, I adore immersive lore and debating plausibility. Though I definitely share your sentiment on the way you want the Au Ra girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayve
Hah, I wouldn't be opposed to the males being as petite and waifish as the girls are :P Heck, in my perfect world Xaela would be more akin to the men's heights and structure, while the Raen would be as petite and waifish like the girl's are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
This has been a ton of fun, heh <3 -
05-30-2015, 08:21 PMBelhi
I'm terrible at editing my posts and it would be a wall anyway if I tried so Im just going to number my responses to your points:
1. A valid point. I'll be honest, the Au Ra females don't look to be particularly well muscled. However there is a really noticeable difference between endurance and burst strength in bulk. The Au Ra males are actually probably pretty accurate I suspect in muscle definition.
2. From personal experience I can tell you outright that in muddy conditions being large makes movement far more difficult and risky than being smaller. Its simple physics really. I think my point though was that a smaller foe can use conditions and terrain to their own benefit. Smaller doesn't necessarily mean worse in combat unless the difference is huge. Smaller can also sometimes mean being a smaller target.
3. Are you talking about in modern times or historically. The average high of humans has been increasing steadily since the Agricultural revolution. Simple reality is more food means bigger people and not just fatter. The extra protein during youth substantially increases growth and size. We are also talking about a resource poor landscape. I cant speak for the Native Americans but if we look at Mongolians which lived in a terrain closer to what the Xeala are supposed to live in then we see a short group of people. In fact even their horses were short. The reality of Hunter Gatherer societies was they simply had far less food supply due to the effort it took to acquire it and burned far more energy in the process of acquiring it.
4. Im going to be honest here. It actually wouldn't bother me if the Au Ra females were bigger. We know that SE made them that way because they felt they would appeal to a larger audience. I just lept into the debate because I like arguing over technicalities in logic. :P
5. You clearly haven't known many farmers or labourers if you think the Raen wouldn't be buff. And this is a time prior to machines to help with the labour. I actually think it would be more fun to have the thin, waifish ones the bloodthirsty types but that's just me. :P -
05-30-2015, 09:33 PMSamcaesarI think this might work better for responses too :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
1. Oh there is very much so a difference, I agree with you there. I just wish the girls were more inline with muscle development as the guys are.
2. I've seen plenty of people in muddy environments, having lived in Florida near a marsh myself, and it's not easy for anyone. At least though, assuming the person is of proper muscular strength they can pull themselves out of the mud much easier. Plus, smaller folks just generally don't do so well in combat, there's a reason why Lalafell rule via intelligence and magic and not through physical strength :P Though thinking about it, didn't the duskwight Elezen live underground in caves? It must have been pretty awful for them at times!
3. In the 1800s, ie, the various plains natives were still pretty active in nomad traditions, the few bits sources I've read specifically in reference towards their nomadic lifestyles as well. The area the various plains tribe weren't the best in resources either, though the few bits of information I've gotten seems to indicate that the mongols were on the shorter side of things, perhaps seasonal climate played a big role in that? Looking at it, it might be a bit weird, as both the area that the various plains natives lived and the Mongolians were classified as Cold Steppes as opposed to Subtropic Steppes..
4. Oh no, I get you, it's a ton of fun! My biggest issue is I'm not a fan of SE making them like that for that reason >.>
5. That would be the case if all Domans were farmers, which I doubt :P. Chances are the Raen that worked in the fields were more muscular, while those who lived in cities were more lithe. Honestly the subject of machinery in FFXIV is also weird.. We've got airships, I'm sure there's some form of machine to help farming too, like little Mammets that pick the grains for you or something! I can see the appeal to that, maybe in the 3.x series character customization will receive a nice big overhaul and we can have our Au Ra better match our wants! (Pls SE ; ; ) -
05-31-2015, 01:48 PMCilia
Sorry I couldn't get back sooner; I hadn't logged on for a couple weeks and so it wouldn't let me post. Sad face.
Well it's partially a complaint about how shallow "stealth" is in this game; you just hit a button and you're magically invisible. I was a little disappointed in how easy that was after stuff like Deus Ex (yes, you get a stealth cloak, but it requires prudence in its use).Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst
I don't recall "Hide" ("Stealth" is the DoL version) ever being described as magical. People can spot you if you're not careful in certain situations (it's automatically broken when you engage bosses, certain quests and mobs like Karasu's bat familiars, etc.) so it's not a magical invisibility cloak. Presumably it's just blending in with your surroundings, maybe a little magically enhanced as a NIN, but even with that it's still a very, very easy stealth mechanic.
And yes, the heavy musculature is why I don't think Roegadyn (of either sex) or male Au Ra would be very good NIN, because the fighting style emphasizes acrobatics and quick movements. Unless they ate a LOT they'd get tired very quickly moving all their body mass so frequently, and their bulk could be cumbersome and get in the way.
Get a more "ethereal beauty" vibe from this one than cute. Not bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivernica
Well the first one was just a joke to show people how easy it is to make Auri women moé moé. What makes the second look like a hipster DJ? Is it the highlights? Does taking them out help?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
Seriously, I'm trying to get a serious look without resorting to "meanfase" (Face 4) and I don't like the horn structure on Face 2 or 3.
Anyway, with the way things have been doing I figured it'd be best to just cleanly state my opinions on the important topics at hand.
On Musculature
-More muscles != more combat capability. Aside from the above point of more muscles requiring more energy to maintain, there's also the fact that heavier musculature only provides more potential burst power. There's a reason bodybuilders are heavily muscled - they're typically in weightlifting competitions, which requires only burst strength. Athletes like cyclists tend to have more trim physiques, even their legs, since that activity emphasizes endurance over power. A more muscular build provides more power potential, but also tires quicker without energy input.
On Auri Social Roles
- We don't know anything yet. Trying to determine if their social roles influence(d) their physiology is tough. However my best conjecture is that the Xaela have a social structure similar to American Indians prior to the European colonization, with the men being warriors and the women being farmers. Since the Xaela inhabit steppes, it's not unthinkable that the women are the huntresses and gatherers while men are warriors. Hunting is better done with ranged armaments (since prey animals instinctively flee), explaining why Auri females are far lighter than males (who could exclusively be warriors). Hunting and gathering doesn't require heavy musculature, and since both tend to be endurance endeavors heavy musculature would actually be a weakness in that role.
(Also I'm going on my recent history classes for this information, which has made zero mention of the social roles of plains American Indians.)
Since the Raen are stated to be an offshoot of the Xaela (not the other way around), I think it's safe to assume from their lack of major physiological differences they haven't been separated for long enough for a significant genetic drift (hence the lack of non-cosmetic differences between the clans). Without knowing Xaela women's social roles (or without more information about Xaela society in general) we really can't determine why Auri women are so willowy in comparison to the men (besides the stated intentional moé / bishoujo designs).
On Changing Female Xaela Designs in the Future
-Not gonna happen, because people who made female Xaela would wake up one day with +15 ponzes of muscle and +1 fulm of height and be upset. If they wanted to do this they'd have to provide a free Fantasia to anyone who was already playing a female Xaela so they can readjust their appearance or race change if they dislike the new look, and then everyone else would whine about how that's not fair, so then they'd have to give out a free Fantasia to everybody. I don't see that happening.
On Female Au Ra Not Being What You Want
-Look at my signature.
Also, anyone not playing a female Highlander or Roegadyn is not helping with the case for sturdier female designs. Part of the reason they made Auri women short and willowy in comparison to the men is because we already have robust females, but not many people are playing them despite fan outcry for them in Legacy. *If you want a tougher female design for a future race, change to a female Highlander or Roegadyn and tell your friends to do the same!
*Results not guaranteed.
EDIT
That's racist! Have you seen mah boi Alka Zolka?! And what of Papashan?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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05-31-2015, 02:47 PMMahriI meant it in a good way! And yeah, the highlights were kinda what did it. But she still looks like a cool scene chick. Before, you'd meet her at a club playing electronic/hip-hop type stuff. Now, you'd run into her at a hard rock concert just partying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Next interpretation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
Really nice and wholesome girl who wants to remind you to use your indoor voice, and you best listen and obey. -
05-31-2015, 02:59 PMSeiko769
I realize as a long time player that racial bonuses are negligible by end game but wonder what Au Ra's Racial Bonuses are o,o
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05-31-2015, 06:06 PMSamcaesarBack to the fun~!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
On the notion of energy expenditure and consuming food, considering that the PCs carry a buffet on them at all times and there's probably some sort of high calorie food that NPCs have (Like an MRE or those energy jelly packets that cyclists use on the road!), it's not too much of an issue I'd assume!
Gonna keep using numbers
1- No it doesn't, but muscular density and size plays a very important role in strength, after all, Raubahn isn't a toothpick is he? Cyclist come in very diverse body shapes as well, a mountain biker has a very different body shape than an on road cyclists, but still in either case, neither are that slim though, especially not to the size Au Ra women are. It's still not like a muscular person will always exhaust easily too, they just need a more stable caloric intake. It's not a question of "Why aren't the Xaela miniature demonic/draconic hulks" and more "Why don't the girls show any signs of muscle whatsoever?"
2- We don'tbut we can speculate, just as the Ishgardians resemble the Holy Roman Empire in a lot of ways, Xaela culture most likely has some basis in our world as well. Fantasy borrows elements from reality to make a more reasonable realm after all. And there is evidence of Native American women participating in war parties and actively participating in hunts. Again, endurance body shapes don't fit the girl Au Ra's body shape in the least. As someone else in the thread noted as well, farmers certainly aren't petite in the least, neither are hunter/gatherers.
The Raen lore tidbit we've got does state that they "long abandoned the nomadic lifestyle", which I doubt means recently, otherwise they wouldn't have made note of that.
3- It's not like they haven't done it before. Didn't they give out a Fantasia during the 1.0 -> 2.0 transition or for the first veteran bonus? Plus, I'd wager most people going Au Ra will be those who are already playing the game through use of Fantasia, they'd most likely just buy another one to change back to Miqo'te or Raen instead. Heck, chances are, SE made this race so that people would use a fantasia (After all, it's a race made to appeal to those who like the Miqo'te and Midlander), I doubt they're above just getting players to spend another fantasia to go again.
4- Junko was a genocidal maniac, not someone you want to take your views on the world from :P Plus, people have sway over their circumstances (Situatedness applied), and while I don't subscribe to "Great Man" theories of history, I will say some individuals did appeal and influence to the masses much more, but I digress.
We're not quite sure on why people don't play girl Highlander and Roegadyn, it could be that people actually don't have a more larger and tougher design that appeals to them. Nor to we really know the exact reasons on why they make the Au Ra girls "moe". Further, using "No one plays Highlander or Roegadyn" isn't much of a reason, as the male Au Ra resemble Elezen, another race with low PC population, except that they're taller and more muscular than the Elezen, so why is that the case? As a bunch of people have pointed out though, the Au Ra girls hardly look different than Miqo'te and Midlander, if anything it's just giving those people who prefer those body types another thing to fantasia too, as opposed to giving someone who wants a larger race, but isn't satisfied with current options, an option to choose. Plus, like you said, we don't actually know if SE would uphold their word on a statement like that, for all we know SE decided from the get go girl Au Ra will be "moe" guy Au Ra will be larger and more menacing.
That said, when does the addition of that body type stop? After the 2nd race waifish "moe" girls? The 3rd? Eventually you're going to experience an over-saturation of waifish "moe" girl options without addressing the actual problem of there only being 2 "larger tougher" looking options for girls. If we were to divide them into body shapes, you've got 3 that are "waifish and moe", Lalafell, Miqo'te, and Midlander, 2 that are "larger and tougher", Roegadyn (though the women Roes aren't nearly as large as the men are, just not as massive of a difference as the Au Ra have) and Highlander, and 1 race that is "Tall and lithe", the Elezen.
Alka Zolka is a huge nerd who probably gets his lunch money stolen by other Marauders and Papashan is a grandpa, hardly great warriors in battle! -
05-31-2015, 07:11 PMAmalahRose
I thought I had decided how I want my character to look but I've since changed it to this.
Fortunately small and shy suits my personality quite well.
http://i.imgur.com/LgwAfuQ.png -
06-01-2015, 01:03 AMCiliaIt's not moéblob or pretty princess, so I guess I can live with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
1. It depends on how efficient their muscles are. You look at something tiny, like say, an ant, and it can lift 50x its own body mass. Smaller creatures typically have more efficient muscles, so despite the fact they're short and lithe there's no reason to suspect Auri women are pitifully weak. That's just the assumption that more muscle = more power, which isn't totally true (heavier musculature provides burst power, but is otherwise inefficient since all that body mass has to be moved).Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
2. I don't know what endurance body types are like, but if I recall correctly they're nowhere near as heavily muscled as the "warrior" types. See my above point on muscular efficiency.
Valid point on the Raen abandoning their nomadic lifestyles "long ago," but we don't know how long "long ago" was. Without knowing that it's impossible to determine whether or not there should be a significant genetic drift between the clans. There are differences, but they're largely cosmetic, so I'm guessing it wasn't that long ago.
3. I don't know about Legacy players getting one for free at the start of 2.0, but one of the first Veteran Rewards is a vial of Fantasia. You're still paying for it though (indirectly through your subscription).
There are reasons for Auri females to appeal to players beyond their moé / bishoujo designs. Personally I like them because they're a more interesting fantastic race than the other ones to me, not because they're cute or pretty (hence my efforts to make a female Au Ra who is neither without the "meanfase"). I wish they were a bit taller and more muscular, and don't like the male design because they're so tall and musclebound (meatheads, meatheads everywhere!), but... can't have everything.
4. Junko might not be the best person to take philosophy lessons from, but the point is it's a game you're not in control of. I want a taller, slightly more muscular look for Auri women too (and show it though my female Highlander avatar)... but that doesn't matter, because the reality is not a lot of other people do (as suggested by the lack of female Highlander and Roegadyn PCs). Why would SE put in another rough and tumble female design when people aren't even choosing the ones we already have?
As for why there aren't many female Highlander or Roegadyn PCs... don't know exactly. My best guess is that people tend towards cute / sexy female avatars, not realistic ones. Men because they find the cute / sexy image attractive, women because their avatar is an idealized version of themselves.
If people were playing the "tall and muscular" women, we might get more options for the same. Then again, we might not. They'll put in what people want, and since not a lot of people are playing the "tall and muscular" women, "short and waifish" it is.
Pandering? Maybe so. But you can't really argue against the artists wanting people to appreciate their work.
Alka Zolka might be a nerd, but there's no reason to suspect he's any less competent than the other Marauders (he is in th' Guild, y'know!); you personally witness his combat proficiency during the SCH quests. Papashan might be older, but he's a (not so) retired Sultansworn paladin, not some doddering geezer!
EDIT
Realized I didn't address this.
On Diets
-While Eorzean cuisine is rich and varied, there's no way to know if anyone is carrying around the kinds of foodstuffs we are. While it's not implausible for NPCs in urban areas to have the modern, calorie-dense foods, the tribal / nomadic people probably don't. If the U tribe of Southern Thanalan could just bake up Rolanberry Cheesecakes, I doubt they'd bother to hunt the sand worms of the Sagolii Desert.
It then becomes a matter of calories spent vs. calories gained, and as I've pointed out before a more heavily muscled build requires more calories just to maintain. Subsistence hunters can't afford lugging around inefficient body mass, leading to lighter but more efficient musculature (hence why all Miqo'te have slimmer physiques). Since the Raen are an offshoot of the Xaela, and the Xaela are nomadic hunters... -
06-01-2015, 06:28 AMHivernicaFunny you'd say that, I kept the Scylla robes in mind while creating her. I also can't wait to make her wear the mage twin adders robe in Ishgard. If I remember correctly it has some sort of pelt on itQuote:
Originally Posted by Mahri
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06-01-2015, 12:03 PMSamcaesarFoodstuffs one first!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
- As I've stated before though, nomadic diets are plenty fine enough to allow for normal growth, Plains Native Americans having roughly the same heights in most cases, in others an inch or so less under average. Keep in mind, most nomadic people migrate with food or to find more food, and when they've got food, they don't waste a bit of that food. The U Tribe isn't much of a good example, they live in one position (An oasis curiously enough) in a desert, and recently have become somewhat of a trading hub, hardly nomadic and they would have access to food such as rolanberry cheesecake, it's probably their choose not to do either of those. Honestly, considering the size of Sandworms, the nutritional value of insects/grubs/worms, and how many of them there are, they seem to be a perfect choice for a great supplement for nutrition.
Animal fat is fairly plentiful in calories, plentiful enough to sustain several nomadic groups in their growth, why would the Xaela be different? Whenever you are spending your time hunting, gathering, and warring, you're going to get muscular, not to a hulked out body builder look, but they're going to be muscular. You can't stop the body from developing muscles, if the case is "Shoot, I'm not eating enough to substance my tribe's growth, guess we've got to go to war again!" then we've likely got our practical reason on why the Xaela fight so much. Even endurance body builds aren't lithe. Plus, we see plenty Miqo'te who aren't archers (In fact I think a good bit of the ones in the Forgotten springs are Lancers), really the only reason why Miqo'te aren't as muscular as ought to be are is they all have to use the lithe model.
Muscular efficiency
1- Ants aren't really a good example, being insects and any muscular growth is held back by the exoskeleton, but while smaller animals do tend to dense up their muscles better, generally you don't see that with human-ish figures. Look at people who do construction I'm not really sure if you could find someone without a muscular build in that field unless if they spent all day operating machinery. The body naturally builds muscles the more they're used, and as long as proper nutrition is supplied, there wouldn't be inefficient muscular growth, only muscular growth.
2- They're still fairly muscular, nothing ~bulging~. Heck, the Auri men look very much so "Endurance" build, the Auri women though look like they've got the metabolism of a tween and the body to match.
It's still strange that they mention it if it wasn't that long ago. Chances are, within a few centuries Raen would have slimmed down a good bit due to having kids with Domans and integrating into their society well enough.
3- You're paying for the subscription, the fantasia is a nice bonus, a "thanks for playing!" deal, it's basically free as the veteran reward could have been other things.
Most people seem to be designing their Auri ladies with two things in mind though, "Cute" or "Succubi". I think they are more interesting looking as well, but their body shape just makes me nearly loose interest in them completely. I wouldn't even call the dudes that musclebound, maybe a bit more wider than Elezen though, but they do look vastly more fit than the Auri girls do.
4- On the contrary, a company ought to listen to fans, all fans, least they result in "trimming fat" models which aren't sustainable long term. Likewise, I support the want for a more taller and muscular look for Auri woman by voicing the need for it (Despite my lack of Roe/Highlander avatar, a Miqo'te was my first race and I dislike the usage of fantasia). SE ought to do that because chances are "Flat faces purple skinned humans" and "regular humans but buffer" don't appeal to their tastes, yet a "draconic muscular human" might. Why would SE make another cute and "moe" woman in the game, whenever they're already people who are plenty content with choosing Midlander, Lalafell, or Miqo'te?
Chances are, you're not wrong with that, but I would wish SE would add some more diverse options when it comes to this. Whenever the choice is between "Lithe cute girl with horns" or "Lithe cute girl" or "lithe cute girl with cat ears" with hardly any difference between the three, then you're hardly giving the playerbase what it deserves. It's why SE ought to do a Highlander/Midlander split (Or at least make Xaela girls taller than 5'2 and Raen men under ~6'8) with the Au Ra, because it's best for everyone.
That's such a horrid excuse though, like I asked, when does it stop? When we've got 3 new races with the girls waifish and cute? 4 new ones? I mean, if that's what the fans want then that's what will happen. But SE ought not to rely strickly on what people want or else they just appeal to a niche. And like I said, it still doesn't answer why the Auri men are more inline to a gap between Roegadyn and Elezen, when they should be just as small as the girls are, using that logic.
Art ought not to be simply to please a target audience, or else you get the same old things, fans will eventually loose interest without pulling in new people looking for something else. You keep the base, but evolve past it. Even then, allowing myself to digress a bit, that sort of "appealing to one specific niche and only focusing on that because it gives you the most money" is kind of what lead to the "moeblob" and issues with little girls the anime industry is only focusing on. SE ought to be wary of that sort of logic, least our next race's addition isn't much different than the Elin from TERA.
Still a ~huge nerd~ Alka better spend less time in the books and more time swinging his axe! Papashan is past his prime! Maybe some new Lalafell could put up a bit of a fight, but with an equally trained Lalafell vs an equally trained Roegadyn, the Roegadyn is gonna with in battles of strength! -
06-01-2015, 12:29 PMKaiser-Ace
My two Gil worth since finishing the ninja quest line is that Doma is based off of China rather than Japan. (This could add some credence to the Dawn Farther and Dusk Mother parallelling with Vietnam's Creation Mythos)
So if it is indeed China then even after the Raen settled into one area the Mountains and River Valleys within them still make for a fairly harsh climate. So the Raen likely would still have the physical builds of the Xaela more from the environment than the life style.
As for their war based system, the Xaela seem to have specialization in their muscle builds. Males are taller and seem to be more naturally built for strength where as the females seem more naturally built towards speed. Both Exhibiting muscle builds that are primarily geared towards endurance. (A big thing for cultures that form in and around mountain ranges)
So larger bodies could be an accommodation to allow males to still have power with out risking endurance considering higher elevations have less oxygen. So the larger build with similar muscle mass would allow for larger lungs and a stronger heart to provide oxygen to the larger frame. The smaller Build with less hard muscle mass could allow the females a great deal more speed than their larger male kin for similar reasons, less muscle would make it easier to move quickly in lower oxygen environments without compromising the small stature that would be more preferable to a speed based fighter.
Lets keep using Roes and Lalas as examples. The Big Sea Wolf Pirate could easily crush a small Lalafell so underfoot uses the superior speed and smaller stature to aid his Rouge training and out maneuver the Pirate for the win.
It's the classic Muhammad Ali vs Spike Lee paradox, it'll only take one hit but you actually have to land it first.