You might as well add an official DPS log to the game...

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

FFLogs and Tomestone/passport is a symptom of a bigger problem, players that constantly lying about their prog points and seemingly incapable of pressing their abilities. Almost like if you don't lie and know your job, then you have nothing to worry about.

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100% game issue.

They can literally make sort of 'check-points' that would add to your character object something like duty XYZ: prog point [name of mechanic]. It could only display for you in duty finder as well as used in pf like a tag similar to [loot][farm][duty complete] etc. Your character object doesn't have such check point? these parties arent for you.

If only there were optional quests for each job with a hard battle at the end to test your knowledge of mechanics, rotation and mitigation skills. You might even call them... Job Quests?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

If only there were optional quests for each job with a hard battle at the end to test your knowledge of mechanics, rotation and mitigation skills. You might even call them... Job Quests?

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I'd rather they just had a Hardcore Boot Camp of sorts, complete with NPCs that quite literally walk/talk you through mechanics of a fight and you get drilled/throttled until the game gives you a passing grade for trying the real fight. (And I don't mean a C- but an A+.)

Leaving such things to player discretion is how we got the current problems we have where even some practice and prog parties still look up logs and kick people/disband quickly, or how the "git gud" crap doesn't mean anything if people aren't even allowed to try and, you know, actually learn and get better before they attempt an actual clear.

This game is nothing if not anti-socal/anti-MMO, especially when it comes to randoms, so it needs more in-game tools to make up for most people's unwillingness to cooperate with or trust struggling strangers when it comes to content that requires perfect coordination. Would a gold star from this hypothetical boot camp guarantee a clear? No, but it would be more useful in gauging a player's ability to attempt the content beyond just the numbers, and it keeps it entirely in-game instead of leaving it at the whim of a third party tool that "doesn't tell the whole story" and is against the ToS anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'd rather they just had a Hardcore Boot Camp of sorts, complete with NPCs that quite literally walk/talk you through mechanics of a fight and you get drilled/throttled until the game gives you a passing grade for trying the real fight. (And I don't mean a C- but an A+.)

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Part of the fun for some is actually getting to figure out the mechanics yourself, so I don't think this will work as it will decrease strategic creativity in the space. However, I don't dislike the base idea: I think that if you were to combine current high-end striking dummies (base rotational skill required for a given fight; tho it's kind of ass on DNC and some other support-ish jobs so it does need tuning) with a Hall of the Novice esque speedrun of basic Savage mechanics (all common variations of spreads with consequences (i.e. overlapping spreads kill you), paying attention to debuffs and buffs, reading boss casts, recurring mechanics like limit cut adjacent stuff and exaflares and all that) set up in a puzzle-style way, I think it'd provide an easier access point. However, any effort to make it mandatory or per-fight would inevitably throw off a lot of day one raiders, so I think it does need to be optional.

Also lmao @ that person deleting their replies because they're factually wrong lol.

Even as a non-hardcore player I would love this. We’ve had Hall of the Novice for a while, and lately we also have the mechanics tutorial at level 49. An instructive solo duty series on high-end mechanics would be an excellent follow-on.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

However, any effort to make it mandatory or per-fight would inevitably throw off a lot of day one raiders, so I think it does need to be optional.

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Oh no no no... I insist its a strict requirement for all would-be raiders to help prune supposed "prog liars" if the lack of a passing grade won't even allow you to join/make PFs for the content or even attempt to queue in directly.

If the whole point of demanding in-game DPS meters is to avoid being stuck with players one deems incapable or incompetent of clearing (or even just progging) the content, than a harsh hurdle of "do you even know what you're doing before you drag other people along" is perfect. And if day one raiders and world racers have a problem with that, then they're free to ace the test and flex about it while others are still getting schooled (literally), and of course prior parsing numbers mean little, if anything, if the game its self decides if someone is ready or not, and the graduated are all stepping in at the same time to prove it.

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

This is exactly the kind of mentality why no one wants to raid anymore. Can't even join a dungeon party without someone checking out your tomestone profile (against my consent) and excluding you from the party, because you didn't meet some arbitrary line in the sand that doesn't exist in the game. People used to operate on trust and common decency, now it's all about numbers and efficiency, with no fun to be had. I am not entitled to a spot, so if they have an in-game reason to remove me, then fine. But they used data from third party programs to unfairly eliminate me from the battle before it even had begun before I even had the chance to prove that I am fit to be there. Also, I'm so sick of telling someone else to make their own party, like as if we don't have jobs and lives to live. I don't have the time to sit in party waiting for it to fill.

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You literally said you wanted to join for a mech you had not seen. why trust a liar, where is the decency? It's also not an arbitrary line, that suggests there is no reason for the line. The reason for the line is that it's where players want to prog from but when you come in two mechs behind the party never gets there, never gets the prog they put the group up for.

It's their group. Grow up and join one suited to your own prog point and actually, you know, progress through the fight. The other players in those groups often have jobs and lives too, and it's their time you're trying to waste.

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Originally Posted by Carstien

You literally said you wanted to join for a mech you had not seen. why trust a liar, where is the decency? It's also not an arbitrary line, that suggests there is no reason for the line. The reason for the line is that it's where players want to prog from but when you come in two mechs behind the party never gets there, never gets the prog they put the group up for.

It's their group. Grow up and join one suited to your own prog point and actually, you know, progress through the fight. The other players in those groups often have jobs and lives too, and it's their time you're trying to waste.

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Report him if he tries that with you -- that's against the rules of Obstruction on two grounds: It impedes your progress, and he is committing fraud by deliberate misrepresentation of his skill level and progress.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'd rather they just had a Hardcore Boot Camp of sorts, complete with NPCs that quite literally walk/talk you through mechanics of a fight and you get drilled/throttled until the game gives you a passing grade for trying the real fight. (And I don't mean a C- but an A+.)

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I get the feeling a lot of people would like to have a place where the game effectively forces you to unsub if you can't meet a certain skill level.

That's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions...