Y'shtola is a Mary Sue.

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Originally Posted by Caddo

Did... did you skip Heavensward at the end of its patch cycle? Shinryu did not "come out of nowhere". This is why people get annoyed when people skip the story/cutscenes (not saying you did but.. if you didn't you would remember the whole part of him coming into existence and what happened because of it).

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Right, but he came out of nowhere at that point. Never mentioned at all before 3.55. Thats basically the same thing lol.

It was a big diversion as we all thought it would be Rhalgr, not some random dragon.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

A traditional Mary Sue is characterized by someone who didn't "earn their power" and doesn't have weakness, which marginally applies to Y'shtola.

I mean, what exactly is her weakness? Blindness? Doesn't seem to affect her in the slightest. Before the blindness? Arrogance maybe but it was never a shortcoming that had any consequence.

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Well her blindness is linked to something that will eventually lead to her end one way or another. And as that eventually comes closer, she won't really be able to do as much so she will just get weaker and weaker as time moves on.

Meh. I like Y'shtola. Never had a problem with her. She's been one of the few Scions that you can always count in for anything and she can take care of herself without heavily relying on us.

The only thing the XIV writers messed up with her is not actually explaining and showing in detail the pros and cons of her eye sight. Otherwise, she's a perfectly fine character. Not every character needs an emotional growth arc to make them great. Some characters have already gone through that off screen and are just perfectly fine the way they are.

I'd much rather have the ever dependable Y'shtola around because she can always do something the other Scions can't: Get her own sh*t together and fix her own problems.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Otherwise, she's a perfectly fine character. Not every character needs an emotional growth arc to make them great. Some characters have already gone through that off screen and are just perfectly fine the way they are.

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Why are they going through arcs off-screen when the whole point of the story is to see that actually happen in-game? Why are characters with nothing to do being prioritized over those with unresolved business? Granted, Y'shtola is finally doing something useful when it comes to the Void Exploration and thus *finally* doing something to advance her goals, but she has a long way to go before I can consider her redeemed.

I cannot consider characters who do not evolve or grow as "fine." Her continued presence represents stagnation and the fact that no matter what happens she always comes away completely unscathed makes for a story with hardly any stakes. This goes for not only her but all the Scions. You can't ask me to care about these characters when they don't do anything and are never in any serious danger.

After an expansion set against the literal end of the world when the stakes should have been at their highest, we wished upon a magic rock and managed to invalidate any meaningful sacrifices the Scions may have done for us. But anything to keep the fandom's comfort characters alive I suppose. Not even Stranger of Paradise pulled ridiculous plot devices like that at the last minute.

The ending of that game somehow managed to make me feel more emotional than the end of Endwalker. Jack Garland earned his finale song "My Way" at his journey's end, but Endwalker hardly earned the right to use the theme of Final Fantasy after the massive narrative failures in its later portions.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Why are they going through arcs off-screen when the whole point of the story is to see that actually happen in-game? Why are characters with nothing to do being prioritized over those with unresolved business? Granted, Y'shtola is finally doing something useful when it comes to the Void Exploration and thus *finally* doing something to advance her goals, but she has a long way to go before I can consider her redeemed.

I cannot consider characters who do not evolve or grow as "fine." Her continued presence represents stagnation and the fact that no matter what happens she always comes away completely unscathed makes for a story with hardly any stakes. This goes for not only her but all the Scions. You can't ask me to care about these characters when they don't do anything and are never in any serious danger.

After an expansion set against the literal end of the world when the stakes should have been at their highest, we wished upon a magic rock and managed to invalidate any meaningful sacrifices the Scions may have done for us. But anything to keep the fandom's comfort characters alive I suppose. Not even Stranger of Paradise pulled ridiculous plot devices like that at the last minute.

The ending of that game somehow managed to make me feel more emotional than the end of Endwalker. Jack Garland earned his finale song "My Way" at his journey's end, but Endwalker hardly earned the right to use the theme of Final Fantasy after the massive narrative failures in its later portions.

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I agree. FFXIV has an issue of focus IMO, we got a lot of characters or plots to uncover, but they're only so much you can get in one patch. So we end up with Lyse being poorly developed until Stormblood where she gets the spotlight, then goes back to being useless the next xpacs. We got 3 major faction yet it feel like Uldah is the only one where plot happend. Like seriously, can you recall an important Npc or event that happend past ARR from Limsa or Gridania that ain't the faction leaders?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Why are they going through arcs off-screen when the whole point of the story is to see that actually happen in-game? Why are characters with nothing to do being prioritized over those with unresolved business? Granted, Y'shtola is finally doing something useful when it comes to the Void Exploration and thus *finally* doing something to advance her goals, but she has a long way to go before I can consider her redeemed.

I cannot consider characters who do not evolve or grow as "fine." Her continued presence represents stagnation and the fact that no matter what happens she always comes away completely unscathed makes for a story with hardly any stakes. This goes for not only her but all the Scions. You can't ask me to care about these characters when they don't do anything and are never in any serious danger.

After an expansion set against the literal end of the world when the stakes should have been at their highest, we wished upon a magic rock and managed to invalidate any meaningful sacrifices the Scions may have done for us. But anything to keep the fandom's comfort characters alive I suppose.

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I felt nothing in Ultima Thule, since Y'shtola herself mentioned the powers of the magic rock and I knew we would use it to bring them back. Then they joke about their predicament after being brought back, as if they themselves know they are untouchable. Why should I worry about the characters who are joking about they wish they at least had a scar from the experience, and that they kill gods every day after their morning tea and it's just another day? There's no sense of tension for these characters. It really disappoints me since Yoshi-P teased that something heavy would happen to the characters, implying at least one character death. Now, it is all too predictable. I am hoping Y'shtola gets some development in the 6.x patches, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

Does he creep on them he simple ask them if they could be his Nhamma & if they want to be & if rejected like he constantly is he backs offs, he seems to understand no means no he doesn't continuously hound the women he ask to be his Nhamma.

Anyway per the topic Sthola is kinder boring character.

She just feels like a non character only existing when we need a deus ex machina moment or a cheap shock value moment like ARR end or when Zenos sliced her in half leaving miraculously no scar or ShB jumping into pitt or sacrifice in EW which loved how they had double up on Twins/Uri others wise we would've had Scions to spare to reach her, also after all we essentially learned we're just fine with whole sacrifice a familiar business weird moment after whole 6.0 story.

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Unfortunately for a pretty big portion of the community, whenever it’s a man hitting on a woman it’s seen as “creepy and gross.” But if it’s a hot lady making comments about spanking or a female character hitting on a dude it’s “so cute and yas qween.” Double standards and all that.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui

Well her blindness is linked to something that will eventually lead to her end one way or another. And as that eventually comes closer, she won't really be able to do as much so she will just get weaker and weaker as time moves on.

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Technically at least, but the truth is SE can not let her bow out or even worse ... die. Shes by now a flagship character and managed the cross game jump.
From forbidden magic throwing her into the lifestream (I'm fuzzy on the details here been to long but that's what happened in 2.5 right) to being hit by Zenos over to sucking on her own lifeforce for a loooong time. Nothing left a dent, and nothing ever will. After seeing who survived 6.0 and how 6.1 went, i have no hopes that their going to replace anyone for this "new adventure".

It feels like Yshtola was meant to be offed at one point, SE however realised dead cat girls don't make profit and decided "no shes ok :)", i also have the feeing Zenos was meant to be yeeted earlier and Emets role after Shb was meant to be over, basically i believe SE will adjust things to make lucky hits with characters "fit" the narrative even if it was not intended before.

But that's just gut feeling and is likely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

The entire story is a big Mary Sue, dude. What do you think would have happened if that airship has not crashed into the shield generator in the castrum? Or if the Garleans had put the generator inside the shield.

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funny is that argument no longer works,.



There is no Airship crash anymore at the castrum, its now a single Shield gen destroyed by cid... we are litteraly not needed honestly..

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Name me one time where Endsinger was hinted at or even named prior to 6.0. She came from nowhere. She appears and die in 6.0 that not called being ''build up''. We had Zodiark portrayed as the BBEG since 1.0, he should have been the final boss or used by the final boss at some extend.

Im not saying murder all Scion btw, im just saying it okay to let some die, Papalymo died yet we survived the next few Xpac didn't we?

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this is an easy one..


ARGUABLY depending on how wide we throw the net, and how 2direct" you want it..


References to a potential idea similiar to ENdsinger WAS dropped in ARR. During the Ending cutscene after punching Lahabrea hydelin talks about "the dark one, residing in the abyss, for while it yet lives, the world may never know true peace"(heavily paraphrased) that Line, at the time, was ALMOST 100% taken to mean zodiark givne the namedrop a few moments later, and it is possible(if not likely) that it was intended to be about zodiark, but the wording, and hindsight of EW, makes it fit FAR better to Endsinger, as hydealin would not have said "while it yet lives" given she didnt want you to murder zodiark.


Yes, this reference was A) very likely retconned later, and B) very obtuse, it is however, a very possible "foreshadow" about somethign other then zodiark, ESPECIALY after we killed him in EW