Ast cards 6.0 rework

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

That's pretty much my thoughts on it. SE reslly cares about balance this time around and AST was begging to be fixed/standardized for a long time. It's not a perfect solution but, imo, better than the last 4 years.

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Balance at the expensive of gameplay it looks like. Warrior, Dark Knight, every healer and Monk are all complaining about how dull and uninspired either some or all aspects of their jobs are. And balance is only arguably better now. 5.0 was some of the worst decisions we've seen in years.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...g?v=1564765617

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An opinion, yes. But it's certainly the majority opinion amongst the online community. Be it here or reddit. The near universal opinion is Astro's new cards are boring and that Sleeve Draw is an utter mess. Even glancing at FFlogs suggests the job is simply not well liked. Never has Astro been as far behind Scholar or White Mage as it has been this tier. If that trend continues going into 5.2 when Astro offers higher damage output. That all but confirms people simply don't like it.

Mostly I saw a shining opportunity to use that when he stated that the current system was worse.

It may be a majority opinion, but it is nonetheless an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

Leveled it to cap 4 times!

Is it really a bad attitude, or do you just perceive a different opinion as such?

I'm playing devil's advocate (albeit mildly trollishly) more than anything. I'm largely neutral about it either way.

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Right. No further comment.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

That doesn't solve the problem at all. Balance would still compete with bole with the system you suggested when you draw or redraw, making that second spread a last resort when you don't get a dmg buff after you fished for it...but we already had a tool for that: minor arcana. And we both know that unless you draw an ewer exactly when you're oom because something went wrong or a bole when you realize at the last second that the tank forgot its cd before a tank buster (good luck with that), you'd just use minor arcana.

One thing they could do is keep divination as the only dmg up buff and repurpose all cards to be non-dps support utilities. Do realize, however, that the chance of having a system where dps buffs compete with other buffs is probably close to zero, for good reason.

Now I'm not saying the new system is not uninspired. But the previous system was a mess and had to be reworked.

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If those respective spread shots were offensive and defensive, it couldn't be Balance or bust. The second slot could only ever hold Bole, Ewer or Spire. If it's still a matter of prioritizing all your Redraws on offensive cards then make it two separate Draws abilities. That'd be better than the mess that is Sleeve Draw, especially since the second slot is only for utility, so you wouldn't need to Draw spam as aggressively.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Right. No further comment.

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I think that's twice you've done that, now?

At least that I've seen.

Oh, well!

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Balance at the expensive of gameplay it looks like. Warrior, Dark Knight, every healer and Monk are all complaining about how dull and uninspired either some or all aspects of their jobs are. And balance is only arguably better now. 5.0 was some of the worst decisions we've seen in years.

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Yes and as a result, 5.0 is the best expansion to date, especially the balance.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

An opinion, yes. But it's certainly the majority opinion amongst the online community. Be it here or reddit. The near universal opinion is Astro's new cards are boring and that Sleeve Draw is an utter mess. Even glancing at FFlogs suggests the job is simply not well liked. Never has Astro been as far behind Scholar or White Mage as it has been this tier. If that trend continues going into 5.2 when Astro offers higher damage output. That all but confirms people simply don't like it.

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Last reddit thread I saw, people the top comment wasn't even about cards. I think people are overestimating how much people want to change the card system back. I'm sure the devs have plenty of feedback by now, including their own statistics. If we don't see any QoL changes on Tuesday, then I can see where they stand, especially since they have commented on this in the past as well.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Yes and as a result, 5.0 is the best expansion to date, especially the balance.

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I am all for balance but if it comes at the sake of gameplay, you trade one problem for another. Now we're seeing more and more complaints about how uninspired a lot of jobs feel. Both tanks and healers suffer from homogenizing, especially Warrior and Dark Knight which are almost identical to one another. Bard lacks even the slightest bit of nuance now, Monk is a complete mess and well, I think the sheer volume of complaints say everything about the healers.

5.1 is also when things started to balance out better. 5.0 was a complete train wreck.

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Last reddit thread I saw, people the top comment wasn't even about cards. I think people are overestimating how much people want to change the card system back. I'm sure the devs have plenty of feedback by now, including their own statistics.

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More than likely because at this point, no one expects the card system to change until 6.0. Look at Stormblood Dark Knight. They didn't touch it despite is slowly dropping into near obscurity.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I am all for balance but if it comes at the sake of gameplay, you trade one problem for another. Now we're seeing more and more complaints about how uninspired a lot of jobs feel. Both tanks and healers suffer from homogenizing, especially Warrior and Dark Knight which are almost identical to one another. Bard lacks even the slightest bit of nuance now, Monk is a complete mess and well, I think the sheer volume of complaints say everything about the healers.

5.1 is also when things started to balance out better. 5.0 was a complete train wreck.




More than likely because at this point, no one expects the card system to change until 6.0. Look at Stormblood Dark Knight. They didn't touch it despite is slowly dropping into near obscurity.

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AST 5.0 was god awful. The Regens were so bad it actually hurt my soul. Personal opinion I think it was the best expansion for a lot of other things, story, job actions, GnB, dancer and etc but not for balance. It wasn't job balance by far.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I am all for balance but if it comes at the sake of gameplay, you trade one problem for another. Now we're seeing more and more complaints about how uninspired a lot of jobs feel. Both tanks and healers suffer from homogenizing, especially Warrior and Dark Knight which are almost identical to one another. Bard lacks even the slightest bit of nuance now, Monk is a complete mess and well, I think the sheer volume of complaints say everything about the healers.

5.1 is also when things started to balance out better. 5.0 was a complete train wreck.

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To which I think homogenizing is good as I put balance up there. Of course I value fun too, but fun is subjective. Case in point, I enjoy the current AST over the old one. Also, do keep in mind that there are always more complainers than satisified people with these kind of things. Happy people tend to just play the game than complain.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

AST 5.0 was god awful. The Regens were so bad it actually hurt my soul. Personal opinion I think it was the best expansion for a lot of other things, story, job actions, GnB, dancer and etc but not for balance. It wasn't job balance by far.

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This expansion is the best balance we've had in quite possibly the history of this game. 5.0 wasn't perfect was on the right track from the very start. Every job was serviceable. 5.1 rolls around and lingering issues get patched up leaving just the caster dilemna. Compare this to any other expansion like HW where there was an arms race of balance passes to fix jobs culminating to making AST overpowered in an effort to get more people playing. SB had this too with jobs like SCH and DRG were weak and they needed fixing.

Really with 5.2 and the balance pass on casters, we'd be at the most balanced FFXIV has been in its lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

To which I think homogenizing is good as I put balance up there. Of course I value fun too, but fun is subjective. Case in point, I enjoy the current AST over the old one. Also, do keep in mind that there are always more complainers than satisified people with these kind of things. Happy people tend to just play the game than complain.



This expansion is the best balance we've had in quite possibly the history of this game. 5.0 wasn't perfect was on the right track from the very start. Every job was serviceable. 5.1 rolls around and lingering issues get patched up leaving just the caster dilemna. Compare this to any other expansion like HW where there was an arms race of balance passes to fix jobs culminating to making AST overpowered in an effort to get more people playing. SB had this too with jobs like SCH and DRG were weak and they needed fixing.

Really with 5.2 and the balance pass on casters, we'd be at the most balanced FFXIV has been in its lifetime.

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At what cost? Satisfaction? Unique game play? There are so many issues still to be handled to this day but I won't go into detail with that can be easily noticeable with all the threads created. RDM was still suffering even with 5.0, and don't get me started on BRD's song utility. If they manage to come up with fixes to all these concerns from now to next expansion then I might agree with you but the fact remains jobs being balance isn't everything to people.