Tank Mitigation vs Tank DPS.

This has probably been said a thousand times but once you know mechanics all that is left is the dps check. Therefore dps get priority on the gear. The only way it would switch is if there were sections that were impossible to get through without more healer or tank gear.

The reality is that heal checks can easily be handled by healer’s overbloated healing kits (healers actually have so much downtime they’ll be dpsing 70+% of the time, not just “one or two” spells). And tank busters are easily mitigated enough to no be fatal even when you’re way bellow the minimum ilvl.

Either passing the dps check or minimizing the amount of mechanics to handle are therefore going to be the main priority.
It also doesn’t help that historically tenacity usually hasn’t benefitted tanks enough to be worth its cost in dps.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Your claim of "Eden Savage is not hard" is not supported when you are unable to clear the content yourself. Spurious claims are annoying. Burden of proof is on you in this situation. You think it's easy? Go clear the tier.

If you can't, then you have no business making that claim.

We'll be waiting.

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I would do it but the rewards aren't worth the time and effort lol.

Meanwhile, the numerous times all healers are dead on the ground at a rank A hunt or ShB boss fate because they cant avoid this_mechanic_that_kill_you_in_one_shot correctly for the eighth time, i prefer to have more defense to survive longer, to have the time of having at least one of the afforementionned healers be rezzed/spawn in a hurry my chocobo in full healer mode. Having 1% more damage isn't gonna help me when the mob i am tanking is still at more than 75% health and when there is no dps checks on it. The game is not all about how much damage you can deal in savage raids you know.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Meanwhile, the numerous times all healers are dead on the ground at a rank A hunt or ShB boss fate because they cant avoid this_mechanic_that_kill_you_in_one_shot correctly for the eighth time, i prefer to have more defense to survive longer, to have the time of having at least one of the afforementionned healers be rezzed/spawn in a hurry my chocobo in full healer mode. Having 1% more damage isn't gonna help me when the mob i am tanking is still at more than 75% health and when there is no dps checks on it. The game is not all about how much damage you can deal in savage raids you know.

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That is very much not a gearing issue.

You can't over gear mechanics on current content. The issue there is poor play.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

I would do it but the rewards aren't worth the time and effort lol.

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Okay, then you can't have it both ways.

"Difficult" is defined as "needing much effort". So if Savage requires too much effort, then that means it's difficult.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

A cop out excuse doesn't mean the burden of proof has been removed.

Ergo

You have no authority to base any of your claims on.

Also, easy things generally aren't described as taking time and effort.

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Have 2 sets of Ilvl450 Gear, 1 with Tenacity, 1 with Direct Hit, literally no difference on the outcome. But please keep putting DH on your tank gear. It keeps Tenacity materia cheap for the smart ppl to buy lol.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

I would do it but the rewards aren't worth the time and effort lol.

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I also have yet to clear it. So I am wise enough to know better than to make claims about it’s difficulty...

Raiding is like a "the poor get poorer" and "the rich get richer" things, with DPS as the main currency. If you don't have enough DPS, the fight get longer and that means you have to deal with more and harder mechanic which usually stack at the end of the fight. Group with high DPS can clear the fights without even seeing the "hardest" part of it.

This also applies to outside of raid, like dungeon. Things die faster = tank takes less damage = healer has to heal less.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

I know you are absolutely not able to do the math for this, and have no idea how mitigation works in this game, but if you save your healers "a lot of heals", when AT BEST, they are saved one heal cast every SEVENTEEN casts with a full tenacity build, you are doing something very, very wrong as a tank.

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One in seventeen is an equivalent of 1520 Skill/spell speed which is pretty quite impressive for a "useless" stat which is gives you 1.6% less damage multiplier than DH.
Even one in 30 will be still pretty good assuming healer is overhealing 50% of time or something like that.

Keep in mind about what number are we talking about here. If a healer is able to save a heal once every 17 time, then its really good.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

If that healer is overhealing 50% of the time... then the saved heal isn't likely to be saved... because they are already healing you wayyyy too much. What makes you think they would then heal less?

Perhaps they should heal a bit less and the tank should cycle their damage reducing cool downs when they need to instead.

Wow, it seems the answer is that player skill is important during relevant content that you cannot over gear. Meaning having additional tenacity for minuscule gains in damage reduction is pointless. Because if they do not play properly in the first place, no sub stat in the world will save them.

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It kinda remind of the debate of GW2 back when it was launched. The game departed from the Holy Trinity system so there is no specific tank/DPS/heal, yet many people at the time still wanted to shoe-horn it in. One of the main sticking point back then was between class-cannon vs tanky/support build.

- Class-cannon: since the game was designed in a way that "EVERY" Damage can be avoided, people with this built rely on not taking hit while kill the bosses fast enough before the mistake creep in.
- Tanky/support build: people insisted on having tank and healer to "sustain" the fight.

There was this guy in my guild who played a Paladin and very proud of his tanky/support build. He always bragged whenever his group kill Lupicus (which was the hardest boss of the time), it's thanks to him, how he can survive the hit, heal his teams and res them when they are down. I came with him once to see what his team done, and god it was painful. The fight last somewhere between 20-30 minutes with people taking damage, dying left and right.

- By tanky, it didn't mean he didn't die, it just meant he died after 4-5 hits instead of 1-2 hits.
- By "healing the party", it doesn't mean he was able to heal his group through mistake, it just means he was able to pro-long their life a bit, so instead of a person dying 8 times during the fight, they may now only die 6-7 times.

Their clear mainly relies on corpse chaining aka hope that not everyone die at the same time to res other people and wear the boss down in the long run.

So I asked if he want to come see my class-cannon group, and he came. We nuked the boss down in less then 5min with no death, in fact, except for him none of us took any damage since we dodged all of them. The best part is even after that, he still insisted that his build is "superior". Note that I'm not talking about it was a debate of playstyle, somehow even after seeing it, he still insisted players like us was "bad" or "doesn't exist" because "if you take a hit or two you gonna die, while I can take 4 hits and survive!". I didn't press him further for his 'logic' because I knew better how it would end up anyway.