Going on 2 hours of radio silence after logging in to find my character in GM jail

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Originally Posted by Iscah

For reference from what the OP said was the reason for being reported:



To be "uploading logs on request when teaching", I assume they were openly offering to do it for whoever they had played with, thinking it's just a helpful thing to do. Which it is, but it's also officially against the game rules (whether it should be or not).

It's possible that they got reported multiple times by the same person or different people before getting called in over it, which might explain the harder penalty at an "applying strict rules" level.


None of that is to say that this has been handled well by the GM, but it could explain the penalty.

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he didnt say he was banned for uploading logs, he says he guesses he was banned because he used to upload logs.

what he stated was that he was banned for 3rd party program use.

he never says the gm told him he was reported for harrassment about logs, or for using a parser. To be honest this seems unlikely, since the GMs usually corroborate 3rd party use.

I dont think saying in chat i'm a bot would lead to a 10 day ban, without them verifying it.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Bruh. There's an EASY solution to this. a SOLO parser built IN GAME for EVERYONE to use. No one would be in the dark again, everyone would be on an even playing field. And no one would have to know anyone else's damage since everyone would just use that instead of fflogs or w/e. Jesus.

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Except this isn't why people use fflogs. For someone who isn't a "super bad casual" I'm surprised you don't know this. Fflogs when used correctly is about more than just numbers. Numbers tell you very little other than "can do rotation correctly, didn't die, possibly got fed buffs". Especially on jobs outside healers that can raise..


Also, numbers are meaningless without a comparison. If you saw you did 20 dps, and there was nothing else. And you always saw you did 20 dps, you think "I'm I'm pretty consistent, that must mean I'm good".

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Quote Originally Posted by KageTokage View Post
Meanwhile, hundreds of players are busy being involved in actual cheating via DoL/H bots and hunt sniffers but the GMs can't/won't do squat about them, nor will the STF.

It's stupid as heck to get a 10 day suspension simply because you mentioned a third party program and someone decided to report you. That's deserving of a warning at worst for a first time offense.


110% THIS!!!

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or maybe, just maybe he was banned for botting, and claimed it was because he used to upload parses back in the day.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Bruh. There's an EASY solution to this. a SOLO parser built IN GAME for EVERYONE to use. No one would be in the dark again, everyone would be on an even playing field. And no one would have to know anyone else's damage since everyone would just use that instead of fflogs or w/e. Jesus.

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Yet they would either hack it or demand numbers, so thats pointless, sadly...

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Maybe its time SE set an example. Sure it sucks that this person seems nice overall... But the TOS is a legal agreement. And an agreement is an agreement. One which he/she agreed to by playing the game.
3rd party programs have long been stated as being prohibited. There's no real excuse. Regardless of how lung the GM left them unattended. Yes that was unprofessional at best, but they still broke the ToS so its still justified.
Tbh, I feel they need harsher punishments for 3rd party program users, be it their 1st offense or their 3rd. Even if it is just a parser. It still provides some kind of advantage over someone else who ISN'T using one, even if it is just a means to show your numbers. PS4 users dont have access to that, so its unfair to them for one. And thats just packet-sniffing parsers. Lets not forget the world of bot/script programs.

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The developers watched Twitch streamers progging through both Ultimates. Some of those streams had one very visible. Why weren’t these people “made an example of”? I also redirect you to my post about how the DoH/DoL botters on my server have been reported since the expansion dropped, yet they’re still here botting away.

How is knowing your damage an “unfair advantage”?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Except this isn't why people use fflogs. For someone who isn't a "super bad casual" I'm surprised you don't know this. Fflogs when used correctly is about more than just numbers. Numbers tell you very little other than "can do rotation correctly, didn't die, possibly got fed buffs". Especially on jobs outside healers that can raise..


Also, numbers are meaningless without a comparison. If you saw you did 20 dps, and there was nothing else. And you always saw you did 20 dps, you think "I'm I'm pretty consistent, that must mean I'm good".

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Oh? And beyond comparing your numbers to others in the same category, to see what they were doing to get a higher parse, what else are they for? Don't kid yourself. Fflogs and its primary function, paired along with XIV analysis is to diagnose what you can be doing to pump out more dps, what you can trim as far as bad rotational errors and replace them with a more optimal rotation. That, and seeing when to use raid buffs in the most optimal way to again, squeeze out more dps and get higher numbers, is the primary function of the program.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The developers watched Twitch streamers progging through both Ultimates. Some of those streams had one very visible. Why weren’t these people “made an example of”? I also redirect you to my post about how the DoH/DoL botters on my server have been reported since the expansion dropped, yet they’re still here botting away.

How is knowing your damage an “unfair advantage”?

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first off, they have said their main beef is harrassment, and publicizing. Mostly based off player reporting. They arent going to hunt down people for parsers. Its also against policy to post chatlogs with names of players in public, this isnt really surprising.


Also, I'm not sure why you believe the poster's version of events, knowing as you do, they generally seem pretty not hardcore about this. 95% chance there is more to the story.

however, its the poster's and SE's right to keep that between each other, i dont think you will ever know the real story.

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Originally Posted by Physic

the key here would be that logs tracks the names of other players right? If you edit the names i doubt they would care, but if you were uploading it to a public website which saves data on all players, i think they could have a problem with that. Assuming they could prove someone was responsible.

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You're missing the point. Anyone uploading anything anywhere is safe because SE can't police what people do in other websites, it doesn't matter who takes an issue to what. If you upload a log they can't do anything because they can't prove you're the one who uploaded it, they can't take down the website because those are just numbers that can't be copyrighted, they can only get you if you admit in-game in your own chat log that you are using 3rd party programs.

GMs can only ban people based one evidence they can actually access within the game, anything that happens outside the game doesn't matter unless you link yourself to that.

So the message is: play it safe, learn what is plausible deniability, don't admit to anything in chat.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You're missing the point. Anyone uploading anything anywhere is safe because SE can't police what people do in other websites, it doesn't matter who takes an issue to what. If you upload a log they can't do anything because they can't prove you're the one who uploaded it, they can't take down the website because those are just numbers that can't be copyrighted, they can only get you if you admit in-game in your own chat log that you are using 3rd party programs.

GMs can only ban people based one evidence they can actually access within the game, anything that happens outside the game doesn't matter unless you link yourself to that.

So the message is: play it safe, learn what is plausible deniability, don't admit to anything in chat.

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my point is less, can they prove it, and more is it against the spirit of how they want things to go.

point being, if you get caught doing something, Yoshida says is the main reason they dislike parsers, i wouldnt expect no drama.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Maybe its time SE set an example. Sure it sucks that this person seems nice overall... But the TOS is a legal agreement. And an agreement is an agreement. One which he/she agreed to by playing the game.
3rd party programs have long been stated as being prohibited. There's no real excuse. Regardless of how lung the GM left them unattended. Yes that was unprofessional at best, but they still broke the ToS so its still justified.
Tbh, I feel they need harsher punishments for 3rd party program users, be it their 1st offense or their 3rd. Even if it is just a parser. It still provides some kind of advantage over someone else who ISN'T using one, even if it is just a means to show your numbers. PS4 users dont have access to that, so its unfair to them for one. And thats just packet-sniffing parsers. Lets not forget the world of bot/script programs.

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This will never happen. Why? Because FFlogs ultimately keeps Savage alive and the devs know it. Without FFlogs, what purpose does clearing Savage multiple times have? Why even care about obtaining i400 gear? It's wholly irrelevant since it only helps clear an encounter faster yet you can longer actually see any improvements. So what's the point? Furthermore, if parses were somehow banned to the point literally no one could gather that information—a highly unlikely scenario—you effectively kill raiding. Why? How are statics supposed to recruit when they have no way of knowing your performance? Ultimate not only demands mechanical awareness but overall high DPS. Without a tool to read this information, people couldn't decipher whether that Black Mage they picked up was pulling 9,000 DPS or 5,000.

"Well, they boss isn't dying! That's how you know." Okay... but how do you know who isn't contributing enough? And therein lies the problem. You wouldn't, which makes recruitment a nightmare.

Regardless, the aforementioned will not happen because even if FFlogs were banned tomorrow. People will simply make an underground tool they don't publicly spread. I suspect the dev's approach is "better a devil you know than one you don't."

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Bruh. There's an EASY solution to this. a SOLO parser built IN GAME for EVERYONE to use. No one would be in the dark again, everyone would be on an even playing field. And no one would have to know anyone else's damage since everyone would just use that instead of fflogs or w/e. Jesus.

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People would simply demand you post your numbers publicly, and refusal would be taken as a sign you were lying. Furthermore, as Valkrie said, you need a point of reference for a parse to matter. I cannot improve my DRG or WAR numbers without directly comparing them against better DRGs and WARs. I can't "trim" mistakes unless I know I'm making them, which a solo parse will not tell you.