I'm calling it the Epidemic. (This is a rant, if you dont wanna hear it, don't click)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bardaboo

Sounds like you are saying "anyone who's giving advice in a dungeon is a bad player"

---

No, but you're obviously bad at reading comprehension.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowAmethyst

I'm not asking you to go out and be the best DPS that ever lived, but at least TRY.

---

Man, I wholeheartedly agree. And no, simply being receptive to advice isn't enough. If you're so bad that someone is practically compelled to advise you on how to play, you screwed up already. Stop accepting mediocrity.

That said, as others have pointed out, 'fixing' the issue is virtually impossible. It's just people. I saw it when I was working low-end jobs back in my college days; you'd have a few gems who were competent and capable, and then a sea of crap. Utter crap. People who, for lack of a better phrase, couldn't take initiative. They couldn't push themselves to learn something if it wasn't told to them, couldn't push themselves to consistently remember something if it WAS told to them, and so on and so forth. Absolutely terrible employees, and I'm sure most of them make absolutely terrible gamers, too.

The most we could ever hope for is what FFXI did, which was erect rather significant barriers to progress. People who were crappy players had such a rough time with them that most of them didn't make it to 75. It wasn't perfect, but it was VASTLY better than the 'accessible for all' philosophy that SE seems to have embraced with FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

I still push for a FC house room that acts like the xmen's danger room. Let's you pull up content based on the most advanced player's level. Generates npc party members so you can go in undermanned with no wait time amd no bothering people as you learn and just freely practice either alone or with a trainer/mentor. Maybe even a pause function.

---

Training dummy challenges as gates = problem solved.

Make it part of the unlock for hard/expert/savage modes and 8/24 player content. Just have tiers based on job and level. Basically, expand on the Novice Hall idea and have Apprentice Hall, Journeyman Hall, Master Hall, etc and tie dungeon/trial unlocks to those Halls and their challenges. Then you'd have minimum competency for random grouping.

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

http://i.imgur.com/cOtwoMt.jpg

Isn't this community just great? Just imagine. In a few years, everyone will be so bad that dungeons take 8 hours to complete!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

http://i.imgur.com/cOtwoMt.jpg

Isn't this community just great? Just imagine. In a few years, everyone will be so bad that dungeons take 8 hours to complete!

---

I totally agree that the Dark Knight is in the wrong here, but I will say "y dont u use darkside" isn't the best way to start any conversation, especially a critique. Saying "Hey, you should try using Darkside while you tank, it really increases your aggro, dps, and opens up some great abilities!" will (usually) be taken a lot better. Or simply asking "Hey, mind if I give you some tips?" before providing advice. Starting off a conversation with an accusation ("Why aren't you using this ability?") immediately puts the person on the defensive. Try wording it as a suggestion. Instead of "Why aren't you using X?", try saying "You should try using X because Y". Providing a brief explanation of why using that ability will make you stronger usually helps people respond to advice better as well. That's not to say I would personally be offended by a comment like that, but some people would be.

Once again, I'm not saying the Dark Knight is in the right here, or that he responded well to criticism (he responded rudely and doesn't know to play DRK at all), but I am saying you should be careful in how you word your own advice in the future. It's a really tricky thing. Some people will blow up at the slightest provocation, while others take criticism very well. But yeah, generally asking if they want some advice, or wording your advice as a suggestion really helps people respond better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claymore65

snip

---

You're right, but my primary reason for posting that image was to show that a party member jumped to the DRK's defense. I've been seeing this a lot recently: people actively defending and shielding bad play. Usually excuses like "Nobody has died" or "We'll still clear" or "This isn't savage".

I get those points, but at some point these players need to stop being shielded. Do you know how an AST gets to level 60 without Cleric Stance? Every time he gets called out while leveling, the community jumps to his defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You're right, but my primary reason for posting that image was to show that a party member jumped to the DRK's defense. I've been seeing this a lot recently: people actively defending and shielding bad play. Usually excuses like "Nobody has died" or "We'll still clear" or "This isn't savage".

I get those points, but at some point these players need to stop being shielded. Do you know how an AST gets to level 60 without Cleric Stance? Every time he gets called out while leveling, the community jumps to his defense.

---

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the point you were making. On that point, I definitely agree. While we shouldn't tolerate harassment (for example, if the red text guy had been swearing constantly and belittling the DRK repeatedly), we also shouldn't defend terrible play. The problem comes from differing expectations. You shouldn't always expect savage-level perfect DPS openers in a random roulette, but you should expect a Dark Knight to use Darkside, or a Dragoon to use Blood of the Dragon, or a Black Mage to use far more than Blizzard I/ Fire I. Everyone has a different baseline expected for play, and while I believe some set the bar too high, others set it far too low. For example, I won't mind if a Summoner doesn't apply their Dots in the perfect order, but I do mind if a Summoner doesn't apply dots at all, or refuses to use Bane/AOEs during a big pull. Finding a baseline that both supports those who have less skill or time to commit while not defending terrible play is difficult, but certainly possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You're right, but my primary reason for posting that image was to show that a party member jumped to the DRK's defense. I've been seeing this a lot recently: people actively defending and shielding bad play. Usually excuses like "Nobody has died" or "We'll still clear" or "This isn't savage".

---

It isn't only recently. I've seen a lot of this behavior over the last 2-3 years.

I usually always try to help my fellow players and I mentor as well....but generally 90% of the time I get ignored or get harassed for trying to help. Sometimes the harasser is not even the one I was trying to help; it is someone else in the party who jumps to defend the person I was trying to help.

I always word my advice as nice as possible but it still usually gets me no where. A lot of people do defend bad play and act like you are a really awful person for offering advice even though any advice I personally offer is with the best intentions and not trying to be rude at all.

Like one time in the Vault I was on BLM I think and my co-dps was a NIN, but they were using an i100 weapon. I casually and nicely let them know where they can look to obtain/purchase a better weapon after we finish this dungeon because i100 is a bit low for this content.

The WHM starts flipping out at me and calling me "elitist" and some other nasty things....sad thing is the NIN was actually happy to get the info and said "thank you I wasn't sure where to get a better weapon I'll do that when we get out."

The way this WHM reacted was as if I threatened to vote kick or something and I didn't do that at all. I told the NIN the info so when we all finish this dungeon they can upgrade. No threats, nice as possible, polite, still get people like this WHM flipping out on you. Gets tiresome. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You're right, but my primary reason for posting that image was to show that a party member jumped to the DRK's defense. I've been seeing this a lot recently: people actively defending and shielding bad play. Usually excuses like "Nobody has died" or "We'll still clear" or "This isn't savage".

---

In my personal experience 9 times out of 10 when phrases like those are used it's because those using them just want to get out of the instance as quickly as they can with a clear and without a headache causing confrontation. I always feel that the subtext is something like "Oh will you just shut up, leave them alone and let us finish this before I go insane..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

No, but you're obviously bad at reading comprehension.

---

You said all the genuine good players basically don't use DF and the ones that think they're good but aren't are the ones in dungeons giving advice