Is dpsing and a healer becoming the standard norm!

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Originally Posted by Loki

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I totally get your point of view. I think it is unique to us SCH, though, or at least more common. We have an entire DPS moveset, since, well, we all started out as a DPS class. WHM and AST did not, and while they get more buffs, we get more DPS options. I'm not saying DPS from a WHM or AST is weak/bad, it's just much more a part of naturally being a SCH since you have to learn the DPS part of the job to unlock the healer portion. WHM and AST just never go through that phase of literally being a DPS class.

Personally I DPS just because it's something to do other than standing around and being pretty, and even if I'm feeling lazy I'll just cast some dots and shadow flare and bane and leave it at that. But then of course you always have people who play any class bare-bones, instead of using all of their tools as often as possible.

Warning: Angry rant about the current state of healers incoming, read at your own risk.

So I really like healing. I like supporting a group and keeping them alive. In all mmos I've played, I mainly healed. But in this game, I cannot enjoy it anymore because it feels more like I've become a "dps lite" who heals occasionaly than a full time healer. It's funny when my merit as a "good healer" or a "bad healer" is decided by how much dps I can do in a run. It isn't about "can I keep my team alive, even through bigger pulls or mistakes?", it's become "how long can I stay in cleric stance and how many Holys, Assizes and Aero 3s can I get off before I have to heal again".Dungeons have become a matter of staying in cleric stance 90% of the time and speedrunning the thing until you are sick and tired of them. Where's the challenge as a HEALER; you know the role I signed up for? I didn't sign up as a dps and while I dont want to take away dps capabilities completely (I know some people enjoy them), a healer dpsing a majority of the instance should only be possible when you seriously overgear an instance (like 50 ilevels).

Instead of making healing more challenging, of maybe giving us a rotation or mechanics or giving us more combat buffs to work with or even (god forbid) making crowd control matter again (why is sleep useless after early levels anyway?) they only give us more abilities to dps because that's all that seems to matter nowadays.

For that matter, why is it possible to use one medica 2 and all party members are pretty much full HP again apart from the tank? Why does my aoe healing not have a cooldown so I have to use it wisely? Why can assize do both damage and healing, but I use it for dps (and of course the mp) 90% of the time? Why is the scholar's fairy allowed to pretty much solo heal a lot of the instances, thus making them trival? Why does the fairy have a spammable heal and not just gives party buffs with maybe one aoe heal on a cooldown?

God forbid a Scholar has to leave cleric stance, we can't have that! Why is the astro the only healing class with buffs through the cards? I would much prefer being able to give my party a damage buff than having to press my holy button until it breaks, but that might just be me.

I think the problem is that even expert dungeons are so undertuned, just so that everyone can run them. Instead of making expert runs an actual challenge and having them be a part of that mid core content (or at least prepare people for raiding), it's just become one more way for people to gain their currency for gear.

I still enjoy the game and maybe other healers disagree with me (since the healer role is still popular) but I don't enjoy healing in FFXIV anymore.

(end of angry rant. Also I would like to add that I am by no means "pro" but I do enjoy a challenge and would have loved to tackle actually mid-core content) Thanks for those that read this.

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Originally Posted by sorahu

do you guys think SE should nerf healers dpsing and raise base damage on actual dps? would this balance the game a little more?

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You're missing the point a little. Healer DPS isn't "required" unless you're doing cutting-edge content. Healer DPS is asked because there is way too much downtime in the majority of this game's content to not do so. You're either just standing there doing absolutely nothing or giving the appearance of looking busy by healing your tank whenever their health falls 1 point below 100% (something that is completely excessive unless you're dealing with a current raid tank buster). The sooner you stop overhealing, the sooner you'll realize that full-time healing is not something that healers were designed for in this game, yet people insist that it is and their answer is to overheal.

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Originally Posted by BlackCross

Angry rant about the current state of healers incoming

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I still don't understand where this "current" thing is coming from. From your first dungeon, if you're not overhealing, you should realize that you have a ton of downtime; it's been like this since ARR was released on day one.

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Originally Posted by BlackCross

It's funny when my merit as a "good healer" or a "bad healer" is decided by how much dps I can do in a run. It isn't about "can I keep my team alive, even through bigger pulls or mistakes?"

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That's entirely dependent on the context of the situation. If you're dealing with "that" group where AoE markers have a gravitational pull on your other party members, the tank cannot mitigate themselves out of a paper bag, or for a more specific case, let's say you're in The Chrysallis and people didn't grab orbs so now the boss has 5 stacks on him and you're a SCH so you Succor everyone, Sacred Soil, and use Fey Convenant so the group doesn't die, that's some pretty good healing. But that's the thing, your worth for measuring yourself as a healer solely by your heals is directly related to how much healing you have to do to keep people from dying (while it's also their duty to dodge AoEs and not take barely mitigated or unmitigated tank busters to the face). If you're constantly and unnecessarily keeping people topped off all the time when the situation doesn't call for it, you're just giving off the illusion of being useful, because you could be doing other things with the effort you're putting. Even as a WHM where you don't have a fairy to aid with heals, why do you take it unto yourself (not you personally) to spam Cure 1 when you can Divine Seal Regen, Asylum, and make your job so much easier. By that point, if you're adamant on not DPSing, I'd rather you go AFK than still insist on healing me whenever I fall below 100% HP and not take advantage of the regens you put on me and also my ability to mitigate and self-heal as a tank.

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Originally Posted by BlackCross

For that matter, why is it possible to use one medica 2 and all party members are pretty much full HP again apart from the tank? Why does my aoe healing not have a cooldown so I have to use it wisely? Why can assize do both damage and healing, but I use it for dps (and of course the mp) 90% of the time? Why is the scholar's fairy allowed to pretty much solo heal a lot of the instances, thus making them trival? Why does the fairy have a spammable heal and not just gives party buffs with maybe one aoe heal on a cooldown?

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Because again, you're not meant to be full-time healing. That's a game design, not a flaw.

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Originally Posted by BlackCross

God forbid a Scholar has to leave cleric stance, we can't have that! Why is the astro the only healing class with buffs through the cards? I would much prefer being able to give my party a damage buff than having to press my holy button until it breaks, but that might just be me.

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Because there would be absolutely no point in adding different jobs to fulfill the same role of they all played exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by BlackCross

I think the problem is that even expert dungeons are so undertuned, just so that everyone can run them. Instead of making expert runs an actual challenge and having them be a part of that mid core content (or at least prepare people for raiding), it's just become one more way for people to gain their currency for gear.

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I completely agree. You can blame the people who complained about how dungeons were "too hard" when 2.1 came out and how the devs listened by making every single dungeon after that a complete faceroll, and even went as far as to nerf Amdapor Keep. I had high hopes for Heavensward dungeons when I did Research Facility as a fresh 60 and then it all came tumbling down. It's pretty funny how the starter dungeon is much more challenging than anything that came after because mechanics actually matter there.

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Originally Posted by sorahu

do you guys think SE should nerf healers dpsing and raise base damage on actual dps? would this balance the game a little more?

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I'd prefer if content outside of current end game raid would just scale with our gear to keep it interesting and proably a bit more challenging but I doubt we will see that anytime soon.

Honestly, the only reason I DPS when I heal is because I'm bored >_>

Mana management is completely trivial. You can go into a boss fight at less than half mana and be fine. You have to spam AoEs to even get close to oom and consequently, you got lots of mana to spare for DPS.
Moreover, healing is simply overpowered. Going from 5% back to 100% takes but a few casts, so outside of tank busters, letting the tank drop is no big issue. Even in big pulls, incoming healing tends to overpower incoming damage easily, even without CDs. Lack of attention is the primary cause of death, not lack of ability to keep up.

The actual task of healing (and tanking, for that matter) is so easy that you have ample ressources and time to take on the role of the DPS (or, watch netflix). That is one part why healers are urged to DPS.
The other part is that healer DPS is very strong as well. Let's be real here: We could disable cleric stance tomorrow and DPSing as healer would still be the most efficient way since you're still just sitting on your mana and got nothing to do. But people wouldn't bat an eye at healers not DPSing because frankly, the impact would be very, very low.

So yeah...

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Mana management is completely trivial. You can go into a boss fight at less than half mana and be fine. You have to spam AoEs to even get close to oom and consequently, you got lots of mana to spare for DPS.

The actual task of healing (and tanking, for that matter) is so easy that you have ample ressources and time to take on the role of the DPS (or, watch netflix). That is one part why healers are urged to DPS.

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but that happens in 4 mans , and easy 8 mans (24 mans are a joke and always have been outside of failing at mechanics ) , in raids healers go oom , in raids tanks need to time Cds for tankbusters or phases...

and is working as intended i guess....

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Originally Posted by sorahu

do you guys think SE should nerf healers dpsing and raise base damage on actual dps? would this balance the game a little more?

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Squenix should just triple or more the incoming damage from bosses auto-attacks and trash, so you would actually have to heal something. I've always found it kind of dumb that healers and tanks can spend more time doing DPS than doing their "real job".

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Whether there's a cap or isn't is irrelevant, it's still carrying simply due to the fact that a healers DPS is never taken account into a fight, so you aren't putting more into a fight, you're just filling up what the bad DPS can't put in.

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I dont think you understand what carrying means.

You could have the two best DPS in the game and just cause a healer throws out dps its considered carrying?

It isn't carrying finishing the fight quicker, the dps are capable of doing that themselves, you as a healer are just speeding it up.

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Originally Posted by sorahu

healing to me seems like it becoming a more difficult class to play if they have to heal, dps, watch for mechanics and raise dps to keep doing there main jobs= dps

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I play mostly healers and DPS jobs. While it "sounds" like healer has more jobs. When a healer DPS it's the most brain dead combination. When a DPS, dps's, it's much more complicated because the reward of your dPS is higher so the difficulty is higher.

If healers had positionals, 9 different buffs and debuffs to keep up. Then I agree with you. But playing WHM is easy compared to pushing the best numbers possible on a DPS job.

Healer was a douche and should have calm down and the tank was not playing well, since they ignored casting defensive buffs. To answer your question, yes this is the new normal.