Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

From the content gauging, the under-tuned issue on numerous instances, and even extremes turning on the lax side of things, job reduction withstanding this statement still holds true.

It’s like pokemon, except at least they have the excuse to have to cater to children. Is ff14 a children’s game?

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

thats why WoW has better raiding content than FFXIV IMO

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This is the hardest pill to swallow and idk why it is, the community is dead set on seeing WoW burn but without tight competition ff14 can be anything abhorrent without rival.

I dont know, WoW Raiding ist the best ?
Most WoW fights are constant checks - dps, healer. FF14 is more like a dance. Makes this WOW better ? For me both ways are fun and i played both now a longer period of time.
The biggest diffrence is in the focus that blizzard had and this was "hardcore raiding" but this had also a problem blizzard did not respect your time.
FF14 goes the other extrem and tries to cater to "every grandma with a disabillity", both ways are too extreme and both companys are way too arrogant for their own good.

Back to tpic: This thread is not about what game is the best, it is about FF14 healers NEED change. The constant "11111211111" rotation can not be all. Many healers hope for F-ups in their party, because then we can shine and only then.
Accessibility does not means braindead. SE please listen and fix.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

I dont know, WoW Raiding ist the best ?
Most WoW fights are constant checks - dps, healer. FF14 is more like a dance.

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To be fair, there are a fair few "dance"-esque bosses in WoW, too; it's just not their sole central, anchoring feature to the exclusion of most anything else.

As such, they tend to be more varied and capable of more involved tanking, significant healing, and their DPSs' macrorotations aren't simply "hit CDs on CD unless boss will jump immediately".

Good healer battle design is a mix of unscripted/variable damage, and fixed scripted damage with a smattering of debuffs and mechanics.

You want some variability in order to keep the healer from zoning out on an optimisation timeline, but you can't make it too much otherwise its down to luck if the party lives. Fixed scripted damage should be there to establish a baseline amount of healing and downtime- enough so the healer has to heal, but not so much they got to blow everything every 30s. Debuffs and mechanics are to help establish a range of difficulty.

A 50/50 healing/downtime split is what the aim is. While that can be achieved with more scripted damage, that doesn't make the healing much more engaging.

Good healer job design meanwhile is having a good toolkit with several damage options and healing options, each with their own strengths/weaknesses and playstyles.
This is why 2,1,1,1,1,1,1 is such shit design and why healing kits, even if they had the level of damage needed to justify them, are still lackluster. There's simply no synergy or thought.

I'm fairly engaged without doing ultimates for now.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Good healer battle design is a mix of unscripted/variable damage, and fixed scripted damage with a smattering of debuffs and mechanics.

You want some variability in order to keep the healer from zoning out on an optimisation timeline, but you can't make it too much otherwise its down to luck if the party lives. Fixed scripted damage should be there to establish a baseline amount of healing and downtime- enough so the healer has to heal, but not so much they got to blow everything every 30s. Debuffs and mechanics are to help establish a range of difficulty.

A 50/50 healing/downtime split is what the aim is. While that can be achieved with more scripted damage, that doesn't make the healing much more engaging.

Good healer job design meanwhile is having a good toolkit with several damage options and healing options, each with their own strengths/weaknesses and playstyles.
This is why 2,1,1,1,1,1,1 is such shit design and why healing kits, even if they had the level of damage needed to justify them, are still lackluster. There's simply no synergy or thought.

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This is one of my biggest gripes with healer design but also some other class design: FFXIV has an insane emphasis on making everything predictable, neatly line up on its own and function in isolation.
The very few synergies healers have are extremely minor like a healing buff through Asylum or Physis II. Almost every skill functions perfectly at maximum value in a vacuum.
Ironically, WHM is the healer with most dps neutral synergies via PI, Temperance and Asylum - simple as they are. SCH really only has Recitation and Protraction but the latter is usually complete overkill and the heal buff is irrelevant with the insane amount of self heal tanks have. AST has Synastry, Neutral Sect and Horoscope but all of them are strictly tied to GCD healing. SGE has Krasis, Physis II and Zoe although the latter is generally kept for Pneuma anyway and Krasis suffers from the same problem as Protraction.
The healing toolkit is bloated and disconnected, it involves little to no decision making or planning.
The obsession with almost everything (dps, healing, damage and mechanics) being on a 30s * x timer makes it even worse.
Oh look, tankbusters happen roughly every 60s in most content. The lv 86 single target skills have the same cooldown. What a coincidence!. It's almost as if SE gave us a square shaped object and a board with holes in various shapes and only the square shaped one lights up, blinks and has "Put me here!" text written on it and then SE says "Look, I know this is going to be really, really difficult, but try to solve this puzzle correctly".

Working with synergies and working around misaligned timers is something that spices up gameplay a great deal because it keeps you focused. It is the reason why I'm strongly against healer combos. 123 is fine as a tiny part of the toolkit if the rest is already interesting and not as the only solution.
"Look, now you have three buttons you press in a set order ad nauseum! Exciting, right?" - no.
The different short cooldowns games like SW:TOR, WoW and Rift had for their healer dps skills, ranging usually from 8s-25s, made sure that you never just pressed skills in a set order.

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

thats why WoW has better raiding content than FFXIV IMO

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I think both have merits, ff14's raids have some creative mechanics, cleaner telegraphs and in my opinion look better aesthetically and have better music.

But overall I agree. Last I played, WoW's combat was just smoother and roles felt more like roles. Tanking was actually a continual game of reducing damage, instead of 3 times per fight for a tankbuster. Healing is constantly dealing with incoming damage. Those two are important because more mechanics are a test of playing your role, than your ability to solve a puzzle. FF14 goes out of it's way to avoid expecting you to play your role too much. The flex system was genius, I'm not a fan of the static system here at all and how FC's are neglected.

But when it comes to one-shot mechanics, I'm really not a fan of how ff14 relies on it. Even lazier is the infinite Raises. It makes Normal feel bad when it's full of bait mechanics that kill you over and over first run and make you feel like you're missing brain cells, but you win anyway because the healers, SMN and RDM's just scrape everyone off the floor and throw bodies at the boss until you win ...Then a week or two later everyone knows the trick and you just face roll it because there are no dps or heal checks.
It's lazy. People praised Aglaia week 1 because mechanics felt challenging, but it's just artificial fake difficulty. They nearly all cleared first run in about 40 minutes. And now it's easy.

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Originally Posted by Thorio

I'm fairly engaged without doing ultimates for now.

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From what I've seen, most of the discussion revolves around Healers and their stale gameplay. It's nice that you feel engaged, but I confess I find it difficult to weigh your opinion when Gunbreaker (arguably, the most involved/busiest tank) is your only job at level 90.

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Originally Posted by Thorio

I'm fairly engaged without doing ultimates for now.

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Your conjurer is lv15 and you haven't touched it since EW release at least (0 xp)
You don't have Scholar unlocked
In other thread other a person called you out for having Ast at lv50 since 2017, now its 51
Your Sage is still at lv70, the unlock level

Ofc you're engaged, you don't play healers after all