Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

SAM is the new MNK actually. Zero raid utility!

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Hope they gave them considerably more DPS to compensate this time >_>

I get the feeling they're not really learning anything. But we'll see.

I really don't want to level White Mage. Square is seriously lucky I am forced to in order to level my Retainers passed 60.. Once my White mage gets to 70 I won't gear it out I won't touch it I won't even fucking heal. Over the last month Square has seriously let me down costantly. First the server move, now you destroy my class I loved since 2.2. I really hope Bard is fun thats the only class I am looking forward to play.

Just when the Cleric Stance changes made me hopeful to start healing again, SE dropped the ball with WHM. Maybe in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

Considering you're over on the tank forum whining about drk, and we know in HW plds and whms were refused parties for high end content, do you think that maybe, just maybe people will be turning down whm? No I'm sure everyone is going to prefer pure overheal potency to party wide damage buffs and high utility while maintaining almost the exact same heal potency.

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Re-read above. Also I said that the new animations and removal of current skills was underwhelming. I never chastised the class as a whole like this entire thread is doing.

I know someone that mains AST (who says WHM sounds amazing but still prefers AST because WHM is basic ;p), and I have a SCH I backup heal as, even if the ilvl is garbage. WHM's new kit sounds fun compared to the current, and doesn't seem useless. But I'm not 70, and I'm not raiding, and neither is anyone else here.

I think all classes will make it into raids. Are you in a hardcore FC? You probably won't main WHM. Are you pugging? People aren't going to turn you away, and if they do, make some friends and play the class you want. MCH, AST, SCH, and MNK all went through the same thing.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to that thread to complain about the two new DRK skills, and the fact that Paladins get a nuke, more dps, and magic mitigation.

https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...ce-of-Mind.png
https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...2-Thin-Air.png

Use those skills together and go wild, i guess?

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Originally Posted by Felis

https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...ce-of-Mind.png
https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...2-Thin-Air.png

Use those skills together and go wild, i guess?

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Meanwhile, AST gets a 900 potency heal (on top of all the existing card buffs, namely handing out Raging Strikes) and SCH gets it own version of Battle Litany. Yep, everyone's totally going to take WHM over those.

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Originally Posted by Snat

Yep. Why I still think come 4.1 we will have 10 slots for role skills xD

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not sure, that still wouldn't balance the WHM issue. that would just buff up AST and SCH more.

Scholar has zip for sustained aoe now, aside from... Miasma II spamming...? I think WHM looked pretty good with that perm 20% cd on healing from the lillies. Couple that with PoM and Thin air and you have flexible DPS for days.

WHM got a treat this expansion. Scholar got slapped in comparison.

RDM looking sexy with the 5k Veracure instant raise though :D

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Scholar has zip for sustained aoe now, aside from... Miasma II spamming...? I think WHM looked pretty good with that perm 20% DPS buff from the lillies increasing spell speed. Couple that with PoM and Thin air and you have flexible DPS for days.

WHM got a treat this expansion. Scholar got slapped in comparison.

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SCH gets it own Battle Litany. SCH didn't get slapped, it's place has been cemented for the next 2 years at least.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Meanwhile, AST gets a 900 potency heal (on top of all the existing card buffs, namely handing out Raging Strikes)

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That need 10 sec preperation time (if you want the 900 heal potency) and run out after 20 sec

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

SCH gets it own Battle Litany. SCH didn't get slapped, it's place has been cemented for the next 2 years at least.

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Battle Litany on a single target enemy and doesn't affect healing for adlos and fairy support/pet buff. Its not exactly as flexible as battle litany.

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SAM is the new MNK actually. Zero raid utility!

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They have a 720 potency weapon skill, and a buff that makes their next weapon skill deal 150% damage, add in their 15% attack buff and -10% slashing resistance buff and you can imagine their damage...especially on a Crit or Direct Hit, or Crit+Direct Hit.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

not sure, that still wouldn't balance the WHM issue. that would just buff up AST and SCH more.

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No, wouldn't balance anything at all. It would just give us back the stuff we lost. WHM either needs stuff to buff party DPS or be out right a far better DPS compared to AST or SCH for it to actually matter in the DPS first meta.

And may I ask where are the new abilities for WHM? WHM got 5 new abilities like all the other classes. But it was the class that lost most abilities. What replaces them?

All of the following is written from a raiding perspective. I don't care how WHMs are in dungeons.

1. ASTs are getting a free 900 potency AoE heal, better than Assize. ASTs are also getting a new 500 potency cure and 15% boost to healing across the board in diurnal stance.

2. Diurnal AST is now equal to, if not better than, WHMs in terms of raw healing.

3. ASTs still have unnerfed cards and a new ability that gives more cards per 120s.

4. WHM's lily mechanic is procced by Cure 1, and Cure 2, two healing spells where you actually ACTIVELY want to use as little as possible. The majority of your heals comes from Regen, Tetragrammaton, and Medica II. Yet the lily mechanic is tied with heals you don't want to use.

5. WHM's lily mechanic is RNG-heavy. So on top of not wanting to cast Cure1/Cure2 too much in the first place, you might not even get lilies since the chance is 20%.

6. WHM's Lv70 AoE heal ability is procced based on another layer of RNG.

Now,

- WHM's heals are based on RNG (AST's **utility** is RNG but not their heals)

- WHM's system actually encourages you to overheal, waste GCDs that could've been used to deal damage, and play unoptimally to make full use of it

- WHM's heals are actually worse than Diurnal ASTs potency-wise

Square Enix, what were you thinking?

BTW, I've looked at other jobs on MTQcapture and was really impressed and excited about the changes. Really love the PLD abilities. So this clearly isn't an issue with them being unable to balance jobs. It seems that their vision for WHM is completely wrong from the very foundation which is why no amount of balance is going to fix it unless they got rid of that vision.

RNG does not belong on WHM.

RNG does not belong on WHM.

RNG does not belong on WHM.

Can we make the dev team write this out a 100 times?

It's pretty clear in my eyes that PI is going to be one beastly mashup of Synastry and a tank specific Lustrate during early progression or phases of significant sustained incoming damage across one or both tanks. The more damage that's coming in, the more HPS this ability will churn out (to the extent where I suspect it'll handily outstrip the loss of throughput from DS in new raid tiers at release). If you're basing your opinion of this on Creator with Echo or Dun boredom then frankly, you're missing the point of it.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Battle Litany on a single target enemy and doesn't affect healing for adlos and fairy support/pet buff. Its not exactly as flexible as battle litany.

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It's +20% crit chance on the target, but the way it's worded sounds multiplicative not additive(which is what battle litany is). In other words, if your crit rate is 25%, under Battle Litany, it's 25%+15%= 40%. With SCH's skill, if your crit rate is 25%, it gets multiplied by 20% when hitting the target under the new SCH ability, so 25*1.25= 30% crit rate.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Battle Litany on a single target enemy and doesn't affect healing for adlos and fairy support/pet buff. Its not exactly as flexible as battle litany.

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It's still very good (raid bosses, where it matters). And you don't have to worry about not hitting casters with the buff. The case where it's not as good as very situational (burning down add groups in a raid situation)

Haha the hypocrisy is strong with you people. 'No I don't play your class but trust me its fine!''. 'Mine? No that's different. It's terrible and I'll whinge all day if I want'.

The intelligence level here must be even lower than I previously imagined.

Kinda sad really how they didn't add another healer in SB because they wanted to balance the healers and White Mages seem to be entering SB in a very bad state.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

RDM looking sexy with the 5k Veracure instant raise though :D

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Keep in mind, Red Mage's only MP regen ability will be Lucid Dream.

Why do I need such an ability? I could already deal with those things without that ability. Now I will need the ability since WHM lost Divine Seal and now gets a cross classed nerfed ability. Probably that's why they got it.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

And may I ask where are the new abilities for WHM? WHM got 5 new abilities like all the other classes. But it was the class that lost most abilities. What replaces them?

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nope, the "Rescue" that they showed off on the Teaser? that's X-Role. so ALL the healers get it. i'm not seeing ANYTHING that WHM actually gets yet...time will tell, but...they've made it so that...yeah, WHMs are going to be locked out of a lot now, i think.

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Originally Posted by Snat

because they wanted to balance the healers

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This line is more and more hilarious by the moment, in that 'laughing but it hurts' kind of way. "We're not going to introduce anything new so we can balance the existing healers"... and they make it even worse than HW.

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Originally Posted by Felis

That need 10 sec preperation time (if you want the 900 heal potency) and run out after 20 sec

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fights are scripted.

a good player will figure out quickly how to time and when to use it.


edit: besides, WHM's Cure III is 550 potency .... even if you dont do the 10 sec preparation time,Earthly Star is still a 600+ potency heal.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

First off, you only build these resources off of Cure and Cure II. Your very BASIC heals. The secondary stat being even worse because only the person you heal gets a confession stack, meaning people without confessions stacks simply aren't healed.

How is this any good at all? It's locked behind way too much RNG that requires you to slam the most basic heals. Meanwhile both SCH and AST gets massive utility updates. Do you have any idea what this is going to do to their raid relevance? Hell they're not even fun to play in dungeons at this rate.

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Furthermore, healing and mitigation has a threshold. Even if White Mage is arguably the strongest healer, it still has no utility worth speaking off, thus Astro and Scholar reign supreme. At this point, White Mage is a borderline hindrance on the raid scene. It can certainly handle a fight, but you are giving up significant utility for no tangible benefit. :(

Utterly disappointed with WHMs this is shaping up to be the expansion where every static will shun WHMs.

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Originally Posted by Xylas

I know someone that mains AST (who says WHM sounds amazing and he wants to switch to it now), and I have a SCH I backup heal as, even if the ilvl is garbage. WHM's new kit sounds fun compared to the current, and doesn't seem useless. But I'm not 70, and I'm not raiding, and neither is anyone else here.

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My lot are kind of soso about the changes as a whole. The concencus in general seems to be that it could still go in any direction depending both on final last minute tweaks (Which I assume there will be some given SCH's underwhelming values) and of course the healer checks that Omega throws at us. My co healer's (Who I'd happily argue is one of the best SCHs on the server) opinion is that SCH is going to be dull with how simplified it's DPS in both single target and especially aoe situations.

I might feel a bit better about the lilies if White Mages had a trait at level 1 that refunds a percentage of MP for the percentage of overhealing on a target.

Cure II a Warrior for 1,000 when they were only missing 300 HP? Get 70% of Cure II's MP back.

At least then you're really only wasting a Global Cooldown.

A lot of these changes seem absolutely terrible on the surface of it, especially pre-60. Consider that a WHM at level 60 basically suffers only losses; Stoneskin is removed entirely, while Esuna / Protect / Shroud of Saints / Cleric's Stance are all relegated to role abilities. In addition, the Aero DPS potential is significantly lowered, since we can't stack Aero I / II / III anymore, and there don't appear to be any corresponding potency changes per the YouTube video floating around. Fluid Aura's loss of damage is the final smack in the face, albeit a small one for party content.

Post-60, we get essentially a "Stoneskin +1" in the form of Divine Benison, which, admittedly, isn't an ability other Healer jobs can access anymore. We get the standard Stone IV, wooo. We get Thin Air, which would appear to be an upgraded replacement for Shroud of Saints. The only real new toys appear to be Plenary Indulgence (an upgraded Medica, one that is arguably an idiot-proof side-grade for Medica II for people who don't want to bother learning the flow of a fight / managing Swiftcast), and the interplay between recast times on Assize and Lily stacks. It is worth noting, by the way, that Lily stacks appear designed to encourage people to mindlessly and unnecessarily spam Cure, because heaven f*cking forbid people be expected to assess whether the tank losing a couple of thousand HP is worth curing right away or not.

In summary: we lose Stoneskin but gain a job-exclusive version of it in the 60s. We lose Shroud of Saints but gain an upgraded version in the 60s. We lose Aero stacking (and, based on the video, also lose the best pull spell we have for solo play in FATEs and the like). We lose Fluid Aura damage (costing us a nifty DPS boost for solo play). We gain a new insta-cast Medica upgrade that is certain to reduce the amount of skill / thought required to heal through heavy AoE damage waves. And we gain the Lilies mechanic, which seems more like a DPS boost for people who might otherwise feel the need to constantly spam Cure and Cure II unnecessarily.

Awesome. Great job, SE. You sure made the job simpler to play - but introducing mechanics that encourage us to spam Cure instead of stance-dancing for additional DPS does not an improvement make.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

And may I ask where are the new abilities for WHM? WHM got 5 new abilities like all the other classes. But it was the class that lost most abilities. What replaces them?

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No new skills whatsoever to replace the stuff we lost to cross class, to say nothing to the skills that simply vanish into the aether.

Is this thread for real ? Cause it feels very LOLlie

With how hard Sam hits, they don't need more utility than slashing debuff for the tanks. Basi

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

SAM is the new MNK actually. Zero raid utility!

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I have been a WHM since the beginning. Why is your team taking one of the most iconic jobs in the whole game and turning it into a joke? I am begging you Yoshi please make WHM viable again. Make it a job we can all be proud of again.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

My lot are kind of soso about the changes as a whole. The concencus in general seems to be that it could still go in any direction depending both on final last minute tweaks (Which I assume there will be some given SCH's underwhelming values) and of course the healer checks that Omega throws at us. My co healer's (Who I'd happily argue is one of the best SCHs on the server) opinion is that SCH is going to be dull with how simplified it's DPS in both single target and especially aoe situations.

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This is something I can get behind. You're not even defending what I've said, but you're providing feedback that isn't overly negative. I'm glad you took the time to give your input.

SCH looks lazy... Tether Eos to the tank. Adloqium. Galvanize (if that even still exists). AFK for a drink. Come back and Adloqium again.
I already have a hard time staying interested when I play it.

Well, that escalated quickly.

If I understand it correctly:
WHM is strong restoration, moderate prevention, strong personal dps, and no raid dps
SCH is moderate restoration, strong prevention, moderate personal dps, and moderate raid dps
AST is moderate restoration, moderate prevention, moderate personal dps, and strong raid dps

I assume I misunderstand. Please correct me.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

Well, that escalated quickly.

If I understand it correctly:
WHM is strong restoration, moderate prevention, strong personal dps, and no raid dps
SCH is moderate restoration, strong prevention, moderate personal dps, and moderate raid dps
AST is moderate restoration, moderate prevention, moderate personal dps, and strong raid dps

I assume I misunderstand. Please correct me.

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You misunderstand a lot. WHM DPS should still be decent. But...

AST is strong restoration. It now gets a 15% potency buff in both stances. AB shield buffed to 300% (yes, really). It can now turn any card into a 500 potency heal or a 300 potency attack.

SCH lost some AoE damage efficiency but gained a huge buff to single target damage, including a 20% crit rate buff for anyone attacking the target.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

Well, that escalated quickly.

If I understand it correctly:
WHM is strong restoration, moderate prevention, strong personal dps, and no raid dps
SCH is moderate restoration, strong prevention, moderate personal dps, and moderate raid dps
AST is moderate restoration, moderate prevention, moderate personal dps, and strong raid dps

I assume I misunderstand. Please correct me.

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AST has stronger restorative spells than WHM in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

Well, that escalated quickly.

If I understand it correctly:
WHM is strong restoration gated behind RNG, weak prevention gated behind RNG, strong personal dps, and no raid dps
SCH is moderate restoration, strong prevention, moderate personal dps, and moderate raid dps
AST is strong restoration, moderate prevention, moderate personal dps, and strong raid dps

I assume I misunderstand. Please correct me.

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Actually, it's more like the above.